Help Testarossa wheel fell off - how can I fasten it back on temporarily

Would you happen to have a phone or email for ordering a socket Thanks, Ron

 

If you need a wheel nut, I'll federal express you one of my used ones for free. Just pm me.

The correct torque is 325 lb-ft. However, I've torqued them to only 125 lb-ft, drove the car, the wheels didn't fall off and when I finished my test drive, the front wheels were now on at approx 300 lb-ft and the rears at 325 lb-ft. (The wheels self tighten of course.) F40s use a different set up. GTOs and early TRs use the same.

I own a GTO and drive it all the time, change my wheels frequently, and the wheels have never fallen off. I keep hearing about these wheels falling off. This was common back in eighties because shops were lazy and didn't install the wheels and torque them up correctly. Ferrari instructured the dealers to torque the wheels the the wheels off the ground. Why? Because the shops were not careful in seating the wheels correctly. This would cause the nut/bolt to get jammed, the torque wrench read 325 lb-ft, and the customer drove off with a wheel not on right and it falls off spectacular fashion.

So, here's the deal. (1) Make sure you have seated the wheel correctly and lube up the splines. (2) Lube the nut and hand tighten the nut on the wheel. (3) With your hands, bang around the tire to make sure the wheel really is properly seated. (4) If you are by yourself, just hand torque it with a wrench just to seat everything. (5) Lower the car. (6) Finish torquing to 325 lb-ft. If you have one someone else, you can torque the wheels while the car is in air.

Obviously, if you cross thread the nut and the wheel isn't seated right, you will get the required torque on the torque wrench, but it will eventually fall off.

Steve

 

You guys are giving a new single-bolt owner nightmares...(as if a new Testarossa owner does not already have enough to worry about).

Seriously, how can you put these bolts on "the wrong side" - on a TR at least? While I have never had mine off, I thought the threading was reversed left to right side so they would self-tighten - from comments in the owners manual. It says, I believe, to loosen in the direction of forward motion, i.e. in the opposite direction on each side.

Secondly, when this happened, what does the car come down on? The brake disk, spoiler, or just part of the underframe?

I think I am going to go out and buy one of those Ricambi sockets.

James

 

I second that, with few words of advice.

My Lotus has been towed on a flat when it died in a parking lot; AAA gets a local company to do it and at least in my case, when I told them it was a vintage Lotus, the boss himself came out to be sure he didn't have an expensive claim.

It's important to know how your particular car should be hooked up. My car is even lower than a Ferrari, and the rear suspension is 2 links with one being the half shafts! So you can't use any of it to attach the hooks. One needs to know these things with exotic cars and at least in my case, the flat bed driver could see how NOT to do it. He educated me on how to hook my car up without bending something. The experience went smoothly and my car arrived home safely. Turned out to be a bad battery cable which I fixed myself.

Ken

 

Hutch...you are dead on....The mark is used by racing teams for regular bolts, and trucks and buses for their wheel nuts. It is an easy way to visually check.

 

I'm new to centre locks with my BB512i but I'm told that rthey should be tightened with the wheel off the ground as the weight of he car distorts the taper joint slightly so it will not be fastened as tight as you think. Motto- loosen with wheel on the ground..tighten at first with wheel off the ground. Makes sense doesn't it!

 

Technically speaking what most people refer to as a bolt is in fact a machine screw with a hex head. A bolt is a screw with a nut on it...without the nut, it is just a screw...at least that's what they taught us when I went to machine shop school at Michelin Tire Corp in the late 70s...

 

I learned that quick trick technique from you!!! You are a good professor, Adam

 

Doesn't make sense to me....Just M O

The splined shaft is long enough to stabilize the wheel whether on or off ground...you could never get 300 lbs. torque on awheel off the ground with a breaker bar....when installing, hand tighten off the ground, drop car and put some elbow grease in...If using a hammer in stead of a breaker bar, you might be lucky enough to get it where it was safe while off the ground but, better be safe than sorry.I say tighten on ground.
besides, the actual spinner or machine screw has alignment engineering built into it.The correct compression of the bolt on the spline will seat the wheel correctly regardless.

 

Definitely makes good sense. I always tighten up while off the ground, however the final check is made while on the ground. Has been fine for my TR and my 5 british cars with wire wheels.

 

Must have wrong hub as knock offs self tighten.

 

BTW...where in NJ are you located?

 

+1
especially look 20-50' off to the side, it won't be far from the dead stop point.


BTW,
Be very sensitive to wheel anomalies when driving and if you feel anything the slightest bit off then pull over and check it out.

 

Here are a few threads you may want to review regarding issues with knock-offs.
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48930&highlight=tr+knock
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=89973
http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23427

 

Maybe you should be aware of what the experts say before continuing to give potentially FATAL advice to those on this forum:

02-16-2005, 05:43 PM
Rifledriver
F1 Veteran
Consultant Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: No. Ca.
Full Name: Brian Crall
Posts: 7,396


The next problem is that if the wheels are installed correctly they can when the car is driven aggressively actually tighten themselves. We have over the years had to take the wheels off in teams a few times because we wear people out loosening the wheels. When they are that tight the high torque 3/4 drive air guns just wreck the bolts. Ferrari did not abandon the design because it was so good.

To install, the male and female threads and splines have to be clean (I mean solvent and wire brush clean) and lightly lubricated with a high temp grease. Next install the wheel and the bolt and NOW TIGHTEN THE BOLT BEFORE PUTTING THE WHEEL ON THE GROUND. That seems so simple but is so often not done. The problem is that the splines on those are very long and if the wheel is not well tightened against the taper before the wheel is put on the ground it will simply cock and bind on the splines. In that condition you can torque it to 500 lbs and it will still be loose and fall off. Next lower the car to the ground, get a friend with strong leg muscles to stand on the brake pedal and torque it to 325 lbs. That brings into play another problem. Very few torque wrenches are designed to torque in both left an right directions as is required to tighten those wheels. You need a special (more expensive) one that works in both directions.

If you do everything in exactly the way described the wheels will stay on. Seems like lots of trouble just to bolt a wheel on a car, just pray you don't have a flat.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

You don't really need a torque wrench (almost nobody has a 325 ftlbs bi-directional wrench and that includes most shops that I know of).

It's high school physics, put 325 pounds of force on a 1 foot wrench or about 110 pounds on a 3 foot "cheater". That's all there is to it. You need to be as precise as you can with the length of the wrench and the force applied but it ain't brain surgery.

Brian was right about getting them off, it can be a real biatch! Pray you never have to change a tire on the side of the road, it probably ain't gonna happen with the tools in the kit. This is true with ALL knockoff wheels that I've seen.
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Many years ago I had a car in the shop and ruined a nice french lead hammer trying to get a wheel off a 330GTC. I had to beat the ears so hard it ruined the knock off, I used a sledge hammer and I could have ruined the wheel. I heard of a guy who got a 250GTE CHEAP cause the wheels kept falling off. The hubs were reversed side to side.All knock off wheels have unacceptable shake like loose wheel bearings IMHO

 

I'm giving you a D- in Photography.

Let's try those pictures again.

 

I think this is one for the Mythbusters.

Lotus knockoffs thread on the opposite way to most everyone else and they stay on just fine.

If the splines are good and the wheel is against the cone on the hub with the correct nut on reasonably tight, it shouldn't move around.

Most issues with knock-off style wheels can likely be attributed to the fact that wire wheels (most probably are wire wheels) don't run as true as steel or alloy wheels.

 

There is an issue with TR cornors/ hubs. As they get some mileage on them play develops. This can cause a vibration that can loosen wheel nuts. I would check to make sure that all four corners are in good shape and rebuild them if they're not. Brian is correct about how to torque them but there may be more to it than you think.

 

I agree with the comment concerning the mythical tightening of knockoffs with braking and driving. I defy anyone to explain how a splined wheel hub will loosen or tighten with drive train torque or braking forces. I have posted this question on several engineering-related chat boards, and those of us trained in engineering are not able to explain this phenomenon. I suspect that the left/right hand threads will not lead to tightening, but will minimize loosening.

Yes, I have seen wheels fall off when splines have inadvertently been installed on the opposite side of the vehicle (my first lesson in suspension rebuilding at 16 years of age). But to this day I am unable to explain how it happens. The minimal "backlash" in the spline might represent a ratcheting mechanism, but this is unlikely at best. The inertial moment of the winged or hexogonal nut/bolt might contribute to loosening during acceleration or braking, but this also does not calculate out.

In any event, left hand threads on the passenger side are seen in most cars with center bolt/nut wheel mounts for a reason...I just can't explain it with physics.

Jim S.