The 355-Exposed? Covered Up? or Overlooked ????

Thanks to everyone for your interest in this thread. You make an excellent team for tackling this so called "beaten to death", yet still alive and well horse.

I am sure that you guys will finally bring this issue to rest. At the least, it will be the most thorough and comprehensive look into this problem, without letting Ferrari's propaganda influence the results.

My vote is for Dave Helms to be the lead engineer/crew chief. He is one of the best that I've had the pleasure of knowing.

I am leaving this site to pursue the ellusive "red rocket".

Wish all of you much success.

Kindest Regards,
Bruce

 

Greetings to all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes, I had a brain fart thingy which almost made me kick my own a-s-s..lol.
Seeing's how this is the first forum I have ever been a part of, some of the crap that goes on here really got to me.

Many thanks to all who encouraged me.

My dad was a B-29 pilot in WWII which caused me to be interested in war movies, especially the ones that had planes in them.

Here is another hint:

In watching these movies, pilot and crew were always on the watch for enemy aircraft. When spotted, they would relate their position by saying, Migs at 9.00, or Zero's at 3:00, and so forth. While not the most scientific way of identifying their location, it atleast gave a general direction for the gunners to look at.
Much later my dad flew the first supersonic bomber...the B-58 Hustler. We were living in England at the time and what the English public did not know is, that these bombers were continually flying in and out fully laden with,practically fully armed, nuclear bombs. The B-58 was at the extreme max. of lift weight with these weapons, and as my father was landing one day, the plane crashed. After he recovered I overheard a conversation in which he was telling how critical flap angle was in the B-58. The flap angle guage was only off a mere 1% which inturn caused a catastropic event.

It made me think about how advanced flying had become. From seat of the pants....enemy aircraft location with general terms, to the "now" of exact scientific measurement of even the flap angle degree....wow.

How does all of this relate to the valve train, and in particular to that little valve guide?

Clue: There are two things hidden in the above storey.

 

Thanks cavlino and truman bond...

There are a few things needed in preparation for our upcoming discussion of the exhaust issues.

355 AND 360 header material metallurgical analysis

355 and 360 header wall thickness at 2 points of primary tube: the tight radius bend, and a straight section.
Measurements should be taken from headers that are as new as possible. The reason for the newness thingy is to have a starting measurement BEFORE any degradation is caused by exhaust gas.

Any help(accurate measuring,material sample,etc.) from anyone would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance.....

 

This is a very very interesting question. Not so much, as to whether replaced guides have ever failed......sure I would like to know the answer to this. But let's step back and take a look at the bigger picture this questions raises.

Let me get this ASSUMPTION out of the way first.
Let's say you're getting dents in your front aluminum bumper. If you researched and found no easy quick fix or causation, and you got tired of spending time and money for repairs, what would be a logical problem solving cure?
Well you can go a couple of ways.....make the aluminum alot thicker, or if you wanted to make sure this problem would be completely elliminated, no matter what, you could switch to a heavy duty steel bumper.
Now, at this point in our research we do not know that this is what Ferrari did with going from bronze to steel valve guides..i.e. bullet proof or more correctly, "over build". Carrying this thru to the end, I would say that replaced valve guides would not fail, but would rather "wear within limits".
RIGHT NOW THIS IS NOTHING MORE THAN AN ASSUMPTION.

Now to get at this bigger picture.

You are definitely going to have to be smarter than a 5th grader when you deal with Ferrari. They can tell you a whole lot of BS in letters and phone conversations. But if you want to know atleast some of the truth, it is contained in the shop manual revisions, and just as important is the PARTS CATALOG.
Now I am definitely not smarter than a 5th grader, so what this thread is in great need of, is someone who understands Italian thinking as it pertains to the parts catalog. That "superceeded from", "superceeded to", then "new".....to say the least, this gets me all confused. Especially when it references a PN that another PN was superceeded from, and then the "from PN" cannot be pulled up...WTF??????
Another thing about those Italians is why show build #'s for some parts and then nothing for others? Do they show build #'s only because the replacement fits or works in conjuction with parts within those builds?
Another interesting concern of mine on parts is this. When they update or change a part, do they ALWAYS assign a new PN?
EXAMPLE: When changing from bronze to steel valve guides they change PN's. There should also be a corresponding technical service bulliten, and so on?????

But if they increase header wall thickness only by, let's say .002", would they necessarily change PN? Would there even be a technical service bulliten update?

When you are doing failure analysis using reverse engineering, it is both costly and time consuming, especially without the mfg's blessings.
To arrive at the right conclusion, you must leave no stone unturned....ANY resources available can be beneficial and helpful.

Ferrari is not dumb. They get constant feedback from repair shops,dealers, and customers. They have to protect their(not your) reputation,integrity, and character at ALL times to remain a viable mfg of road going cars to support their first love and passion i.e. RACING.
In constantly gathering all this information and data they try to make improvements that are COST EFFECTIVE to them,and NOT YOU.....alot of what they know about current problems doesn't even show up until a new model is introduced. All this data/information,though collected from the outside, is analyized in-house and guarded like TOP-SECRET NSA stuff. And they are only going to tell the shops,dealers, and especially customers as little as possible...kinda like in the government where classified material is on a "Need To Know" basis only.

Well how does this relate to the 355 problems we are discusing?
With the end of the 355 series 5 valve engine came the 360, then the 430.
Can we gleen anything from the design/build(parts),material specifications, and any other data from these 5 valve V8's? Did they address any of the issues that the 355 series had? Usually a mfg. will not go to the expense of changing anything if they don't have to. Kinda like the county putting in a traffic light at that busy intersection which only has a stop sign......where I come from they have to have so many accidents or deaths until they fork over the bucks for an electronic traffic control device.
So we are going to have to,not only look backwards, but forward at the same time.

Anyone highly skilled in the Ferrari parts and/or service manuals may shed alot of light on thses issues.

Any volunteers?

 

Friends, Romans, and country men, and especially 355 owners, lend me your ears.

I just spent 2hrs on the phone with Tom Anderson, who is the Chief Certifications Specialist that specifically handles ALL of Ferrari's import certifications,testing, and compliance. In other words, NO NEW Ferrari for the FNA dealer network can come into the USA without his approval. Ferrari has to come to him with ANY changes that could effect smog/emissions, and he is currently involved with some new models that Ferrari is bringing to the US market.
It was to say the least, one of the BEST and most INFORMATIVE conversations I have ever had with a government official.
We discussed in detail the F355 series, and he was shocked and very interested with the issues we are trying to address in this thread....from valve guides to cats and everything in between.
He even told me that he had just approved something that Ferrari was wanting to do on a new model to be imported for US market......but after our conversation he was going to re-assess Ferrari's proposal.

Their was NO "Limited Exemption Status" for the street version of the 355 model.

There was waaaaay to much info discussed, for me to post.

He wants me to prepare a written document for presentation to his superiors'. At this point in time I am extremely busy and may not be able to prepare a document that is worthy.

For all who think this thread is non-sense and a waist of time..."Beating a Dead Horse"....so be it.

But for those who haven't rolled over and played dead while Ferrari is "stickin it to ya", I need someone who can put together our position in such a way that EPA can understand and take appropriate actions.

If you have plenty of money and don't care, then by all means stick with the,"Well that is just how Italians do it" slogan. If you really think that statement applies to cars they ship to the US, then all of what I am saying is of NO value or importance.

Dave Helms.....please call me at your earliest conveniance, I have much to discuss with you concerning my conversation with Mr. Anderson.

 

OK, now that I have my new flame suit on, I want to open a new can of worms.......or should I say, start the "Mother of All Wars.

WARNING: DO NOT use "sintered steel" valve guides!

How many people have had their bronze guides replaced with the factory upgraded ones from Ferrari, i.e.the sintered steel ones?

How many out there bought a newer model that came with the iron(SS) guides?

Wella, wella, wella.....the mystery gets even more mysterious.

Does anyone know what I'm getting at?

 

FBB, I have no regrets working on Porsche race cars. I not only learned alot, but it put me in touch with some of the most brilliant automotive engineers in the world. Some of which I am communicating with concerning the F355. This life experience gave me valuable tools in how to approach and resolve a plethora of rare/unique problems that arise in the world of competitive motorsports. When you say,"too long", in my estimation it was not long enough. If the Italians are illogical and use lackadasical engineering solutions that create problems, then only one who is logical and uses sensible engineering solutions will be able to solve.

I would like to put this thread in perspective.....in other words, "What's in it for me"? How am I going to benefit from all of this?

Absolutely ZERO,i.e. notta d*mn thing.

I don't have ANY of these issues and I won't. Why? Because I'm addressing everything....from intake to tailpipe. May have other issues with the car that I will definitely need everyones help on. But right now, I want to contribute something of value to FChat and its' members. IMO, that is the best way of saying "Thank You" for all the help you have given to me and others.

So what is the purpose of this thread? It is simply to help current and future owners understand their Ferrari's. If in some way this saves current owners a buck in ownership, and can get you one more buck when you decide to sell, then this thread will have accomplished its' purpose.

When I step in the ring with any opponent I have already won 50% of the fight. Why? Because in my mind my opponent is goin down one, way or another.....I'm goin to rip his head off.....lol