The Monster MAF!!!!! | FerrariChat

The Monster MAF!!!!!

Discussion in '348/355' started by gothspeed, Jun 28, 2007.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. gothspeed

    gothspeed F1 World Champ

    May 26, 2006
    10,244
    U.S.A.
    Full Name:
    goth
    #1 gothspeed, Jun 28, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    For those of us with the single 5.2 MAF on our 355's.

    Why does the new GT3 get such a HUGE MAF!!!! This is Porsches most powerful normally aspirated production car ever @ 415HP!!! I think the Monster MAF is a big contributer to its power!! The large air filter/air box is not hurting it either!!!

    Is there untapped HP to be had in this area?? Is our single MAF restricting air-flow to the HP loss point???

    I think our 3.5L engines should be a solid 400HP!! Where are the 355's choke points???

    When it comes to MAF size..... the 355 was robbed!! :mad:
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  2. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    May 21, 2005
    72,740
    Vegas+Alabama
    Full Name:
    Mr. Sideways
    Size does matter (wink, wink).
     
  3. gothspeed

    gothspeed F1 World Champ

    May 26, 2006
    10,244
    U.S.A.
    Full Name:
    goth
    Aparently with the 348 so does quantity..... ;)
     
  4. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Nov 19, 2001
    22,619
    The Brickyard
    Full Name:
    The Bad Guy
    Yup the MAF is where the later 355's are getting robbed. The '95s make 5hp more because they have two MAFS. All we have to do is get these cars to breath better and to ponies will be released. Just look at how muck power Andy is making with his 348. All he did was get more air into his engine. His top end and bottom end are bone stock.

    It's pretty hard to get a nice swig of milkshake when you're trying to suck it through a coffee straw.
     
  5. Houston348

    Houston348 Formula 3

    Oct 18, 2006
    2,297
    love the analogy haha
     
  6. 355dreamer

    355dreamer F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Apr 3, 2006
    10,476
    DC Metro
    Full Name:
    L.C.
    I have thought that the horsepower increase for the 95s was more like 10-15 hp... Anyway, they are better! ;):)
     
  7. UConn Husky

    UConn Husky F1 Rookie

    Nov 11, 2006
    4,425
    CT
    Full Name:
    Jay
    You know, when I picked up my 355 I repeated to myself often 'I will not mod the Ferrari, I will not mod the Ferrari'. Then Goth has to start this thread to get the cranial gears turning!
     
  8. plugzit

    plugzit F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 1, 2004
    7,785
    Redondo Beach, CA
    Full Name:
    Bruce Bogart
    I'm afraid you've fallen in with a bad crowd, my friend. Didn't your mother warn you about guys like us? :)
     
  9. jm3

    jm3 F1 Rookie

    Oct 3, 2002
    4,364
    United States
    Full Name:
    JM3
    5.1 square inches for a 96-99 HFM vs 9.0 square inches area for a 1995 is probably worth more than the factory stated 5 hp drop from 95 to 96..............

    JM
     
  10. gothspeed

    gothspeed F1 World Champ

    May 26, 2006
    10,244
    U.S.A.
    Full Name:
    goth
    Exactly!!! The flow area of the dual to single MAF alone has changed the horsepower, now that limitation will limit other HP mods :(.
     
  11. lndshrk

    lndshrk Formula Junior

    Nov 7, 2003
    753
    SLC, Utah
    Full Name:
    Jim Conforti
    So you go from 1 MAF to 2 with the necessitated change in plumbing.

    A small signal conditioner reads the input from each MAF coverts back to
    Q (in kg/hr) then adds the 2 numbers (duh) then reconverts back to a volt
    signal and the OBD-II computer is none the wiser.

    Said conditioner to be small enough to fit "inline" in the harness you build
    that goes from 1 to 2 MAF's.

    Since the MAF used in the M5.2 F355 is also used on a BMW, I already know
    the transfer curve.

    This was my intent to do, but for the life of me I cannot find a good "no
    stories" F355 (GTS or spyder - I like sunburn on my bald head).'

    Jim
     
  12. gothspeed

    gothspeed F1 World Champ

    May 26, 2006
    10,244
    U.S.A.
    Full Name:
    goth
    Sounds like you have something there. Is it then possible to use another MAF identical to the exixting one and run both output signals in 'series' to sum up the halved output voltage making it equal to one? Of course the air flow paths would be in 'parallel'.....
     
  13. jm3

    jm3 F1 Rookie

    Oct 3, 2002
    4,364
    United States
    Full Name:
    JM3
    Maybe you could do this, but is my in my brain somewhere that the early MAF read the change in current, and the later ones "read" the voltage required to maintain a temp aka voltage (up down 5.0v).

    So then it would be a pain in the butt, and the early ones are the 1992 BMW M50 type anyway.

    So I think it would be easiest to just make 2 airflow meters averaging the flow, using just the stock sensor part from Ferrari and the sensor part from another bosch Film type. You actually could even use just one afm, on one side and extrapolate to the other side. There are worse assumptions than doubling airflow and not measuring one side.

    And I bet you would get more than 5 hp
     
  14. gothspeed

    gothspeed F1 World Champ

    May 26, 2006
    10,244
    U.S.A.
    Full Name:
    goth
    Sounds pretty good..... :) I have heard something similar to what you are saying. I wonder which type of MAF the 5.2 355 has???

    I have also heard about correcting/recalibrating a single "monster MAF" to work in the place of the smaller one. Granted the plumbing would need retrofitting to the larger MAF... :)
     
  15. James in Denver

    James in Denver Formula 3

    May 23, 2006
    2,136
    Centennial Colorado
    Full Name:
    James in Denver
    Pardon my ignorance if this is a stupid question, as I've said before, I'm not a mechanic nor a "tuner".

    If the Motronic 2.7 with dual MAFs on the 95's is better, is it possible to switch out the entire 5.2 system with a 2.7 including the "plumbing"?

    Seems like a simple why to "upgrade" a 96-99 355.

    James in Denver
     
  16. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    29,151
    socal
    Jim,

    What is a transfer curve?
     
  17. jm3

    jm3 F1 Rookie

    Oct 3, 2002
    4,364
    United States
    Full Name:
    JM3
    Most if not all obd2 Bosch, including the 5.2, are the same as the GT3 style with the "hot film".
     
  18. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    May 29, 2001
    18,053
    USA

    With Jim Conforti's technical "know how", it may be possible, but I see a possible "plumbing" issue for the F1 cars...look at the picture above and the f1 pump reservoir...it will hit the left side MAF.
     
  19. lndshrk

    lndshrk Formula Junior

    Nov 7, 2003
    753
    SLC, Utah
    Full Name:
    Jim Conforti
    The curve that shows, as a plot, MAF v out to kg/hr flow.
     
  20. lndshrk

    lndshrk Formula Junior

    Nov 7, 2003
    753
    SLC, Utah
    Full Name:
    Jim Conforti
    The SAME MAF that a Mid 90's BMW V8 has.

    Hot film, Bosch, Voltage out.
     
  21. lndshrk

    lndshrk Formula Junior

    Nov 7, 2003
    753
    SLC, Utah
    Full Name:
    Jim Conforti
    Why not do that? 5-10 years in the pen.

    It's illegal to convert an OBD-II street car to OBD-I.
     
  22. gothspeed

    gothspeed F1 World Champ

    May 26, 2006
    10,244
    U.S.A.
    Full Name:
    goth
    So it seems it can be done..... I just need a GT3 MAF and find a way to recalibrate it??? :)
     
  23. jm3

    jm3 F1 Rookie

    Oct 3, 2002
    4,364
    United States
    Full Name:
    JM3

    Clarification for Ferrari guys: The mid 90's BMW V8 has TWO of the medium size MAF that the 96-99 F355 has ONE of. The hp ranges from 290 to 395 for these 4.4 to 5 liter BMW V8s.
     
  24. gothspeed

    gothspeed F1 World Champ

    May 26, 2006
    10,244
    U.S.A.
    Full Name:
    goth
    So does that mean the single 5.2 MAF is big enough or too small as the primary premise of the thread states?
     
  25. lndshrk

    lndshrk Formula Junior

    Nov 7, 2003
    753
    SLC, Utah
    Full Name:
    Jim Conforti
    Actually not, they use a SINGLE MAF.

    The only BMW's that use dual MAFS are the V12's which use 2 parallel
    systems of 6 cyl each, and the M5/M6

    Jim
     

Share This Page