US grand prix in Las Vegas? what are the odds (pun intended)

I have been reading around on the net quite a bit regarding a Grand Prix back in Las Vegas, and a clear concensus on where in the US would be better escapes all my searches. IMHO, Las Vegas would be the US version of Monte Carlo, only it's America's playground. Can anyone enlighten me as to what in the world they are deliberating about? I hear things are sort of awry at Indy right now.....

 

Indy's contract is up, and Bernie is playing "Bernieball" to negotiate a better deal, whether in Indy or elsewhere. He likes to pretend that F1 doesn't need the US (I tend to agree) and complains loudly about the lack of promotion in the States. Oddly, the US race sees regularly high attendance numbers despite a boring track, schedule change the 5th year and the tire fiasco in '05. We all know what Vegas is, and while it would make a great bedfellow for the F1 race I think they will bump up against the same problem as before: Where to run it? Casino owners fought over track location, either because of prominence or inconvenience. I would expect more of the same.

On another note, one thing Bernie complained about that I find odd was his claim of Indy's lack of promotion for the Grand Prix. The race needs to draw from outside Indy to get large attendance. Ask the hotels, bars and restaurants. The race needs to be promoted in Chicago, Atlanta, Denver, New York, etc.

 

Vegas would be the only other logical choise outside of a top media market city. Convincing vegas (the city and potential investors) might be hard, its going to take a very large investment, and if people are in vegas spending their time doing the F1 thing that means they are not spending their money doing the vegas thing. People spend their weekends in Vegas with out a major draw, does vegas need an F1 race? Or will an F1 race hurt proffits?
I street race would be cool in Vegas though, build a F1 style padock, with the all important F1 media center, combine all that with a resort and casino, but you would really need to get the city to play ball for that to work.

 

Why couldn't they run the same street-track which they used for the recent champcar event? That was held in the classic old-downtown casino area and I thought it went very well. Vegas has more than enough room, a great track in place, and I think the California sports car crowd would come to Vegas before they went to Indy. To me, the California crowd 'gets' F1 a lot more than the Indy crowd.

 

I spent some time at the Vegas Grand Prix Champ Car event and I didn't really like the layout of the track up there. I know they are trying to "revitalize" that area, but it's really a slum and Vegas has much nicer areas that would leave visitors with a much better impression.

 

I was in Vegas for the Champ event. And that's what it was. Great street course on TV. How dose Bernie charge for all the seats in the high rises?

But I did meet somes girls there.
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

f1 deserves better than the street course they used for the champ car race. If they had a race here, the strip is the only place that would, but good luck getting the casinos to play ball having their entrances blocked for 4 days.

The last f1 race here they used the parking lot at Caesar's Palace, but Vegas is a much different place since then.

 

maybe it would be better if someone built a real track near Vegas

 

I propose 2 killer locations: The Vegas strip at night (obviously a race on mars would be easier to secure) or the streets of Chicago. Down Lake shore drive, and through the city. I think that would be an awesome circuit.

 

I posted this story in the Nevada section a few hours ago, but to summarize an exec at the Monte Carlo Hotel/Casino said the word on the street is land will be utilized just west of the Mandalay Bay Resort. The city has cleared this area in the past for an auto race so theres no hangups there. One of the concerns is the closeness this location would be to the airport for takeoffs and landings and the inability to use helicopters for tv coverage. Here is a map of the possible locations per the exec's description. The "A" pointer is the Mandalay resort with the green arrows being the possible locations for a track setup.
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Vegas is a marketing machine. If it needs to be bigger, better, and more extravagant than Indy (not necessaril hard to do) then Vegas is the only other player in town. F1 is an international event that draws international recognition. Vegas is a venue that wants/needs players from all over the world. The initial (and subsequent) investment in a such a major event would well endow Vegas with even more notoriety than it already has. I think it would be a great thing for the city, the casinos, and the American (and international) public.

 

Vegas would draw much more international attention than Indy by a long shot. With the exception of New York, I can;t imagine any other city in the US that draws as many Europeans and Asians as Vegas. Again, the race would have to be on the strip- if they carved out the infield at the speedway ala Indy I just don't see it working- and downtown is far from being as cosmopolitan as an F1 event demand. A night race in Vegas would be off the hook- and it would be the shot in the arm that F1 in the US needs. Everybody loves an excuse to come to Vegas. As opposed to Indy, where I can't imagine anybody but die hard race fans are making that pilgrimage.

 

Don't get me wrong I think Vegas would be great. but if your going to do the race on the strip, your going to have to get all the casinos to go along with it. Like I said before, if everyone is at the the F1 race, then no one is at the casinos, that means the casinos are loosing money. People still go to Vegas regardless if there is an F1 race, so its not like Vegas really needs this. though I think it would be cool.

One thing Indy can do is put butts in seats, for Vegas to work they would need to find a way to put at least 100,000 seats on the strip (more if they want it bigger then Indy). Correct me if I am wrong, but FIA will also require permanent garage structures, paddock, and suites over looking the pits, all this would have to be built on very near the strip.

 

As TeamF1Jr's graphic illustrates there is still alot of undeveloped land just south of the strip. Alot of potential spots to build out permanent or semi-permanent facilities.

Secondly, you keep alluding to the fact that the casinos won't go for it because people will not be in the casinos gambling. While this is definitely the goal of the casinos (to attract people to their establishments and keep them inside) what do you think all the spectators will be doing for the other 20 hours a day when they're not watching practice, qualifying, and the race? You think someone's going to travel from Europe or Asia to go to the race and NOT stay at a casino hotel, walk through one, go see a show in one, or drop money at a table or slot at some point during their stay? Furthermore, many of them are likely to make an actual vacation out of it and stay for four, five, or six days. Lots of buffer time around the actual event to do other things ... like gamble!

The point is to BRING players to Vegas. F1 will do that.

 

I completely agree with Jeffrey, F1 would bring in many many gamblers and would be a huge spectacle if they made the track go right down the strip. Only problem would be dividing up the costs between the casinos.

 

Great post, many thanks!

It's all falling into place now.

 

I see your point, that F1 will bring players. But the casinos might argue that people already come from all over the world to gamble in Vegas on any given weekend. the Casinos are going to want to know, if people come anyway, why should they spend millions of dollars getting ready for a grand prix, if they are not going to make any more money?

I am not trying to rain on everyone's ideas here, I am just thinking from a sales perspective, if I was to try and sell this idea to Vegas and its casinos, what questions might I need to anticipate from investors?

 

Casinos makes money per ammount of time people spend in casino.
GP will attract 100K new visitors that woudn't be there otherwise. The 100K F1 fans will bid out room prices and will squezze out from 60K to 100K "regulars" who go to LV for gambling.
Will 100K F1 fans spend more time in casinos than 60-100K "regulars" - I doubt it.

 

Las Vegas is a huge tourist destination for Europeans. A GP will be the famous straw that broke the camel or rather the trigger to book the next US vacation. It will be hugely popular with Europeans, much more so than Indy could ever be. To fly to the USGP in Indy you have to be a motor head, to go the GP in Vegas you can also bring along your entire family and friends. So much more to do there and combine it with a great trip.

 

Agree. Keep in mind - race ticket price is about 100$, travel, lodging and meals is at least 600$, so if someone spends 600$ and have a choice between LV and Indy - Indy can only be a preference if you can drive there instead of flying.

 

Spot on.

It'll be interesting to see what the ticket prices in Las Vegas will be like. If they're equally low as they were in Indy, then that's another reason for Europeans to come over. My seats for the Hungarian GP are $ 400. And that's a Mickey Mouse track with little history.

 

You're kidding, right? Last time I checked Vegas lacked, among other things, the Med and the Alps. While I DO agree that Vegas has the potential to be a big F1 draw, if done properly, it's not exactly Monaco.

 

From someone who attended the 82 Vegas Grand Prix, it was not a pretty sight. The lame track on the Ceasers Palace Parking Lot was a joke. What is up with the Marketing? Lets go to a real Race Track instead of these Micky Mouse street circuts, lets leave that to Champ Car. I think the Vegas idea sucks.

 

I was there in 81. Doesn't look any worse to me than the USGP at Indy. Seriously.

I used to play this track on Grand Prix 3 (as an add-on). It actually has a nice flow to it. What is annoying and what the drivers complained most about were the concrete walls on either side: The turns were all basically blind turns just as in any street circuit.
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

I think it would be hard to get all the casinos to go along with it, and run the race on the strip. They would have to invest millions, for seats, suites, and other structures. Even if the hotels are filled to capacity, the cost still might out weigh the benefits.

I think what America needs is a 21st century state of the art grand prix track, a super track. I look at some of these tracks being built or purposed in Asia and India, they are amazing. I believe that is the direction F1 is wanting to go. if you could build one here in the US and spare no expense, every major racing series will want to come. why not build something like this right outside Vegas?