McLaren suspends key technical employee in ferrari probe

Anyone know what other teams were with Michellin last year? Renault & McLaren are two, what about BMW, Honda and Williams? Not jumping on the bandwagen here but one must wonder, how can all other Michellin teams from last year all struggle for grip except McLaren? Not only did they have no problem adopting to the Bridgestone tires, they thrived and were competitive from day 1. I know McLaren is a great outfit, but can they be this good?

I can only hope that none of this is true as McLaren does not deserve to go down in flame because of one man's selfish mistake. It is entirely possible that RD/McLaren has absolutely no knowledge of this and simply believes that their Chief Designer just happens to be both lucky and super bright. But either way, their season and perhaps, even their future participation in F1 has to come under fire because of all this.

 

So as long as the information acquired are useless, it makes this action okay? IMO, if this prove to be true, Mr. Coughlan should have enough professional ethics and personal intergrity within him to refuse and reject any offer from Mr. Stepney in the first place.

 

If this info is so useless then tell me why these teams have tighter security around there development factories than the United State military have around their camps in Iraq

 

BMW looks like they made quite a gain as well, McLaren isn't the only one. Williams also looks better that last year. It's not that unusual for a team to make a big gain year to year. McLaren has done it before, so has Ferrari and even Renault. I think most of this story is hogwash, the two cars are too different for any information to be useful to one another.

 

Luis,
IMO, you're wrong on this one. Why would Caughlan hold onto the information for 3 MONTHS, if it was of no value to him and his team?

Any data gleaned from a rival teams development, is valuable, at least to see what they're up to.

ie: What if someone had stolen algorithms for one of the many electronic systems on the car? These could be useful even if they had to be translated or transposed for different computers.

 

Maclaren was getting desperate. They were behind Renault and Ferrari with no signs of getting better. Now a HUGE leap forward out of the blue. Come on lets get real......something is wrong here.....This chicks got 3 breasts.

 

Tire info, aero info, etc, from a car that doesn't even have a similar wheelbase to the car you have isn't gonna help a lick. Now traction control parameters, launch control, engine schematics would be a different story and that would need to be protected.

 

I dunno about that Bill, I guess it would depend on exactly what it was but as i just said aero info and tire info wouldn't do you any good, other that to see what they are up to. As far as to why he would keep this info for so long other than he had a brain fart, I would have no clue unless he was already thinking about next year's car. Keeping anything that's stolen for that long just isn't too bright.

 

well we dont really know what they found (yet) do we?

 

IMO, key word here is "gains", not surpass. All of the teams you mentioned, except McLaren, are all still work in progress. None of them made the type of jump as McLaren has. I am not saying it is impossible, but just hard to believe.

I think we can all agree that a lot of data can only be acquired through actually racing the cars on track, which is exactly what is happening with Renault, Williams and BMW's season. McLaren didn't appear to miss a beat at all from the start of the season, almost as if they have been using Bridgestone tires for as long as Ferrari has.

 

I'm not too sure about this one. Bridgestone changed the compounds (harder) for all teams. Even Massa said during testing the info from last year didn't help. Everyone had to start from square one. Anyone rememeber the trouble McLaren had with thier car in 2002? In 03 they were second in the championship. A huge gain was made during the winter. It has happened before.

 

Well... IMO, tire info, such as wear vs pressure, loading and temp info, might be extremely interesting for any team to get their hands on, no matter the chassis difference. It still would be like having extra test sessions, with different setups.

Hmmmm... what's this LWB chassis doing for Ferrari testing this month???

Aero info, such as the effect of adding different design winglets, modifying bargeboards etc. Even with different bodies and chassis, someone could see a possible benefit to a minor design change, thereby using the development engineers at Ferrari as their own free staff, saving time and money.

Think about it, Luis.

 

My wife just asked me, "what's new on FerrariChat?" So I told her about this thread.

Her response (and she is always right about everything ): McL should lose all their points after the theft and be suspended the rest of this year and next. That would get peoples attention.

 

IIRC, the Bridgestone compound this year is somewhat based on the 05' season. Plus, IIRC, the F2007 has similar dimension to the 05' car too, hence all the speculation made by the media as to why Ferrari is the only one that came out with a LWB car as oppose to everyone else.

As for McLaren's issue in 2002, wasn't it because they went for a more radical design that didn't work, just like what Williams did with their failed walrus nose car. Hence a brand new car was released in the middle of the season that year, that they refuse to acknowlege and call it an evolution instead for PR reason. IIRC, DC even confirmed that it is a completely new car.

I also that Massa's comment about the tires was a standard answer for the public and the media.

 

Wat happened last year. The ferraris were struggling and the renaults were flying. It wasn't until mid season that ferrari made a comeback. Why couldn't the McLarens do something similar this year? Also despite everyone hating alonso on here (i hate him too) we all know that he is able to setup a car very well. I think that people are underestimating the McLaren team

 

Bill, i'm sure that the info would have some use but that would be more strategy wise such as knowing when thier tires would be worn, at what rate etc. Knowing when thier rivals would have to pit would be priceless info but to Ron Dennis not Mike Coughlan. This information would not do McLaren much good unless they made wholesale changes to the car at the design stages in the winter. Other than that God awfull nose wing thing McLaren has done the car looks pretty much the same from an aero point of view. McLaren was beating Ferrari by outright pace, not stategy. I agree with Steve Machett. Ferrari seems to have a problem at high downforce tracks (Monaco, Canada, US) and McLaren is good there. Once they got to the low downforce tracks it's pretty much back the way it was.

 

I think the only person to ever loose his points for a complete season, was one M.Schumacher, in a Ferrari.
To think this kind of thing is new to F1 (or any other kind of motorsports) is naive. Mclaren had to protest Ferrari a few years back, because they found an F-employee posing as a photographer and taking pictures of the cars in the pits with the covers of, (suspension,brakes trans etc). Who ever mentioned the Ferrari guy took the information the week before Monaco, and then Mcl got quick, has no clue as to how long it takes to design,model, manufacture and test, then produce any given part. Do we think when one engineer leaves a team and goes to another , he does not bring any ideas or information with him. (Newey, Brawn, etc). Ferrari have proved over the last few years they will do anything to win, legal, illegal, moral or otherwise. We should all wait and see what happens before casting stones, especially if any of us knew what we were talking about, we would not be sitting here typing on this board, we would be doing fuel curves, wing loads, brake wear analysis etc for the GP in 4 days time. Just my $0.02.

 

The tires would have to be different than the 05 tires simply because the V10s were still around. The V8's have less torque hence less tire wear at the rear. Massa may not have been as forthcoming with what he really knew about the tires but pretty much all the drivers including Massa had stated that the tires were different and a bit difficult to get used to.


The whole point that was being made with the 2002 comparison was that a team with the resouces and experience of McLaren can turn things around and rather quickly.

 

If Ferrari are right then you will see for the first time a team get excluded

 

It will never happen. How stupid would the FIA be to excude the only thing making this year interesting. This year would be a joke if McLaren got excluded.

 

and how stupid will FIA look if they don't penalize McLaren, ASSUMING that a crime has been committed-which looks like it certainly has? Exclude? Of course not. Penalize? Of course-10 points per driver and of course a 20 point deduction in the WCC.

 

... lets face it all teams are after any bit of information they can get their hands on, it's always happened, etc.

Thus surely Nigel Stepney is the one who has to cop the lot as he is the one that said: "Here it is guys come and get it". He is also the one that would have signed an employment agreement NOT to share sensitive data. The McLaren personal definitely did not sign any documents to say they would not RECEIVE any sensitive information, only that they would not share theirs. Even my company has this arrangement.

Without Nigel nothing would have been shared ... he's a gonner!!
Pete

 

give her a kiss for me, I love that kind of thinking

McClunken are cheats, we all know that .... I'm not biased here, just stating the facts my friend Andreas likes to hear

Gee I just thought of something, I hope Tifosiron hears about this, it will cheer him up no end .. get well Ron

 

And Ferrari does not cheat? I've got a bridge to sell you if you think that. Everybody does this sort of thing, the only difference is now they got caught.