McLaren suspends key technical employee in ferrari probe

So - As long as McLaren paid for the information - it's Ok ?

 

While I don't think anybody (read the FIA) will be able to prove that this data was responsible for McLaren's comeback, I can very well imagine that they will want to pound down their fist. And as such I can see a two or so race ban coming. Not only for the FIA (and Mad Max Mosley) to bolster their egos, but also to make the championship entertaining again.

About two races from now McLaren will get suspended. They might even loose their constructors points, but not the drivers points. Massa and Kimi will close the gap to within a few points. Then with 4 drivers tied at the top the season's last quarter will begin. Everybody will watch on TV, Bernie and the teams will make a ton of cash and the world will be perfect again.

Think I'm dreaming? Just rewind your tapes back to 1994. They did it to Schumacher and Benetton and now they'll do it to McLaren. What a wonderful world.

 

I dont no how you think such stuff up brillant!!!

 

I wasn't watching in 94' but the scenario sounds very plausible with the way Bernie likes to run F1.

 

Apples and oranges. You are fishing big time here to defend Mr. Coughlan for whatever reason.

Ferrari hired away engineers from their competitors, same way as McLaren, Renault, Williams, BMW and everyone else. Key word is "HIRED" and you know perfectly well that's what Moretti is saying. Remember Adrain Newy? He was HIRED away by McLaren from Williams and subsequently the episode involving RD/McLaren and Bobby Rahul/Jaquar/Ford? Let's not forget the famous incident of Senna going to McLaren from Lotus and taking Honda engine with him, thus Williams was left the odd-man out. And just to be clear, Ferrari hired away ex-Bennetton engineers, it is Renualt who literally bought Bennetton.

In addition: By following this thread, it is interesting to see how many Senna fans (xxxSenna or Sennaxxx or xxSennaxx or whatever) are here to defend McLaren and that their shared view of the "All evil team Ferrari" in F1. It is great to see such loyalty being paid to McLaren because of Aryton Senna, but while doing so, they seem to be forgetting something here, Ferrari is not being investigate for wrong doing here and Michael Schumacher has nothing to do with any of this. Let's try to focus on 2007 season and nothing more. Facts: A high level McLaren engineer and an unhappy ex-Ferrari engineer are the ones in the middle of this mess. So stop the senseless Ferrari bashing already or go do it at McLarenChat or some place else.

 

Your not dreamng and you may be very close to the truth.

 

Great speculation - very informative and entertaining. But I don't think anything will happen to McLaren.

First, I doubt there will be any connection made between the engineer and the team in terms of knowledge of stolen data. We don't know if it was sold by Stepney, or given away, or requested by the Mac guy, or used by the Mac guy. Due to the potential HUGE ramifications, I doubt Ron would say "wow great!" if the engineer told him he had just obtained full details of the F2007. More likely he'd distance himself and/or just can the guy, so I'll bet the Mac guy never let on to anyone that he had the data. He probbaly also didnt really have enough time to study it, make changes based on it, and implement those changes in the car.

Assuming the 07 Mac really doesnt have any parts that can be traced back to blatant copies of Ferrari parts, its going to just be a case of an employee doing something that the employer didnt know about. No way will Mac be banned this year, or have their constructor points taken away.

My .02 of course. It will be interesting to see how this unfolds.

What I am most interested in is why Stepney gave up the docs and whether he pushed the situation or was pushed into it, and whether it was due to being a disgruntled employee, or whether there was $$ involved or what?

 

+1 [This is Stepney we're discussing here damnit! - He's been around forever and is (was?) *extremely* well respected IMHO.....]

It also appears Mac are doing the "right thing".....

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/60479

 

go look up the word espionage and then you will understand

the McLaren was in a public place with the covers OFF and if photographers were taking photos then they are putting it in the public domain.You don't get into the secret racing section of Ferrari or McLaren or any of them

Sending data from INSIDE Ferrari to the main McLaren designer is espionage

it's like you tell everyone what you are doing on Fchat, it's public domain, you don't really want everyone to know but it doesn't really matter if they do.

you send an email to your girlfriend to meet her at a special place but one of the CC's sends the info to your wife - espionage !!

 

Man, What do people think this is? Little League? This is clearly industrial espionage and a criminal offense. This is serious business and there are hundreds of millions of dollars involved with these teams and FIA. The company (McLaren) is ultimately responsible for the personnel, and in my opinion will and should take a big hit. The designer was not a janitor or something and to those that believe any info is not valid because it is not the same car need to understand that any competitive advantage is major where .001 of a second can make a difference.
Recieving stolen property is definately punishable with jailtime.
This is not a game and industrial espionage is a monster business and taken very seriously. If you don't think it matters that much, whether they prove that direct parts are used or not from the info stolen, you're nuts IMHO. Even pit stragedies and gas mileage, etc can be of critical importance.
Wake up!
If I were a sponsor spending hundreds of millions perhaps each year, I would probably file my own court case if I thought my chosen sponsoree could have won the championship, but didn't because someone from a competing team had insider info.
BTW, I am basing the guilty verdict only on the available info I have read. If the circumstance s change all bets are off.
By the way a jury would not have to believe that the knowledge made available to McLaren translated to a winning advantage, only that they had it available. I don't see how the head designer could say he didn't have it in his head when he was making decisions.

 

By the way, your wife is really pissed and I wouldn't go home if I was you. LOL

 

the real secret here is to never CC anyone

 

In order to address some of the speculation McLaren has invited the FIA to conduct a full review of its cars to satisfy itself that the team has not benefited from any intellectual property of another competitor.

Has the feeding frenzy finished yet am bored of it . three sides to the story ferraris, Mclarens and the truth the one we wont no for a good while if ever..

 

That's the best point made in the entire 7 pages of this thread.

It's not about McLaren copying a wishbone design.... It's about McLaren obtaining the results of a database (F2007 Plans, Data & engineering calculations) that took almost 10 years and billions upon billions of dollars to develop.

Ask yourself, what are the ideal tire pressures around Indianapoils for Bridgestone tires... That can be extrapolated from the database. Ask yourself, what the appropriate wing to drag ratio should be for Montreal.... It also can be extrapolated from the data.

Of course McLaren didn't put any Ferrari designed parts on their car. McLaren will be parrots with that statement, because frankly it's the only thing they can say, and is totally true. But I'm certain that won't be the focus of the FIA investigation.

Watch the terms of the "Sporting Code".....

 

Do you *know* that was what was seized at Coughlans house?

Do you *know* that data took "almost 10 years to develop"?

Please let us know how you know this information.

Thanks,
Ian

 

He doesn't.

 

The point is only valid depending on what exactly was taken. Otherwise it's pointless.

 

RES IPSA LOQUITUR

It was the McLaren Chief designer's (Coughlin's) house that was raided and Ferrari technical ducuments were found. Not the tire warmer's fluffer.......as in "oh yeah nice pics, but shut up ***** and open your mouth..."

To think that McLaren did not use that info is an insult to anyone whose neurons fire off in a haphazard manner.

 

you never know, that might be Nigel Stepney's alias when he logs into fchat

 

2006 CC Points (Final)

1 Renault - 206
2 Ferrari - 201
3 McLaren - 110
4 Honda - 86
5 Sauber - 36
6 Toyota - 35
7 RBR-Ferrari - 16
8 Williams-BMW - 11
9 STR-Ferrari - 1
10 Toyota - 0
10 Super Aguri - 0


2007 CC Points (after 8 races)
1 McLaren - 114
2 Ferrari - 89
3 BMW - 48
4 Renault - 28
5 Williams-Cosworth - 13
6 Toyota - 9
7 RBR-Renault - 6
8 Super Aguri - 4
9 Honda - 1
10 STR-Ferrari - 0
10 Spyker-Ferrari - 0

In the first 8 races of the 2006 season, McLaren had garnered only 59 points. For the entire season, their best finishes were second places at Australia, Monaco, Hungary and Italy, with two of those being among the first 8 races.

Fortunes, this season, have changed dramatically for McLaren. They have already scored more points than in all of last season. Serendipity !

It is notable, that McLaren has thus far, managed to handily leapfrog Renault (BMW has also) and Ferrari and ever since Spain (5/13) has been showing even more strength, holding a commanding lead in both CC and DCs.

I am not saying absolutely that it is due to the information that Mike Coughlan had in his possession or any other information that may have been passed to him and I do have my doubts, that these were the only bits of information that were transmitted between them.

It just seems to smell a bit foul to me and a lot of the motorsports world in general. All the while, McLaren is scrambling around quite visibly, working overtime at damage control.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm???

 

It always amazes me how fast people go right to "nuclear war" in the Racing & Tracking Forum.

We don't know all the facts, but some of you have great insight and I find the specualtion interesting to read. No one should take this stuff personally IMVHO.

My concern is that this will not be good for F1. It won't be good for McL and it won't be good for SF. And it won't be good for the fans.

No matter what the facts are, the solution will not be perfect. A good solution will be where no one gets everything they want. Everyone will be somewhat unhappy.

Too bad we can't just go racing and may the faster car/driver win.

 

LOL!

 

+ a very big "1"......

If the "popular" press gets hold of this F1 could become the laughing stock that is Nascar outside the USA.