I'm working on a 1988 UK-spec, manual-steer 328 GTS that the owner brought with him when he emigrated to New Zealand. The first thing I noticed was the amount of effort needed to turn the steering wheel. Now, I've been a mechanic all my life and as such I've got reasonable upper-body strength (I can bench-press 70kg) but I found it near-on impossible to manoeuver the car if more than about half a turn of lock was needed. The steering gets progrressively heavier and heavier as you approach full lock; such that I just about had to wrench the wheel with both hands on one side! The owner has sorta got used to it, and neither he nor I have driven any other 328, so we don't know if hard steering is a characteristic of this model or not. I have stripped the front suspension and the steering rack, and the only things I can find are the upper balljoints are a bit stiff (but can still be moved by hand) and there was a bit too much play between the pinion and the rack; but apart from that, nothing. The car is fitted with Goodyear tyres that have that stacked-chevrons tread pattern, and it did occur to me that this pattern puts a lot of long, unbroken strips of tread on the ground, and maybe this type of tread pattern doesn't scrub easily when steering at low speeds compared with a broken, "blocky" pattern. So; can anybody help me with this problem? 1. are all 328s manual-steer? 2. does this sound like a common problem? 3. is there a fix? Thanks!
My steering was like that before I changed tires. You may be on to something there. The ones on my car when I bought it were near slicks, and I had to two had it quite a bit. Put some new Pirelli P-zeros on there, and it freed right up!
I had the same issue with a tire size of 205/50/17 on the front of my 1985 Mondial Cabriolet fitted with HRE 7.5X17 wheels. I had flat spotted those tires and just last week fitted a pair of Sumitomo HTR Z II 225/45/17 replacements. I was astonished to find that the steering effort was so reduced that I no longer even care if I have power steering or not (for the low speed parking lot type negotiations--that is). This tire change transformed the car. Try a tire change and confirm the front end alignment numbers. regards, Geoman 54
Agreed with all the others. My TRX tires provided pretty heavy steering. When I changed to my 17x8 wheels and 245/45-17 tires, steering effort lighted very noticeably. Bob
New tires often give the lighter steering feel at least for a while. Maybe there are some leftover release compounds (to help get it out of the mold) on the tread that act as a lubricant until they wear off. The little "rubber hairs" that stick out of new tires also need to be worn off and finally, the garage may very well have over-inflated your new tires (or your old ones were low). Often, the first time you get an indication of that is when your front tires lock up, during braking, more easily than you remembered. Lightens the steering and gives you better gas mileage but.........
Do you have the same symptom when you have the wheels off of the ground. Does it still get progressively harder to steer. If so I would believe it is in the rack and you would need a rebuild. If it is fairly easy to turn without being under load then I would look to the tires as being the problem. Give that a go 1st and see what you get.
Three point turns etc are always a bit of an effort in a 328. 1) Yes 2) 328s are "heavy" at parking speeds. The Good Years sound like Eagle F1s (which are correct) - they should be 205x55s on the front. If they are larger then that won't be helping! 3) Yes, don't try & turn the wheel with the car stationary! Always be moving a little & make sure the tyre pressures are right. Unless something is obviously bent then I can only suggest you hunt around to find another 328 to compare it to or take it to a main dealer/specialist & ask them what they think. What does the thing feel like at 40/50mph? I.
I like to autocross my 308....and when I do I find I have to remove my wrist watch or my arm gets all bruised up because I'm working so freakin hard on the stering wheel
Assuming you hit your alignment numbers; 1) Hard and tired tires are at least 20% of the problem. 2) Track Rod Joints should not be able to be move by hand, they should be tight 3) Inner Tie Rods should be tight, and without the Track Rods installed should stay put without dropping to the ground. If they dont, tighten them up. 4) The Grease in the Rack is done (10 yrs old the rack needs to be flushed and re-grease), assuming the rack has all its teeth, and the Rack hasnt been curbed (bending it), flushing and changing the grease will add 10% ease to the steering. 5) Check the steering universal joints while youre in there.
My car came with oversized wheels and tires and it was awful at low speed. I went back to the stock wheels and tire sizes, cut a total of 50lbs of unsprung weight! Now it's like power steering ! I love it . (Goodyear F1 GS D3's)
Wow!! Thanks a lot for the replies; I'm most grateful. I'll try to answer the questions posed in the replies so far: The tyres are indeed Eagle F1 GS-D3, 205/55 ZR 16 on Ferrari 5-spoke 7x16 wheels. Tyre pressure was 34PSI cold, so maybe that's a clue. Steering effort is much lighter with the wheels off the ground, but still tightens up the further you steer off straight-ahead. All the suspension joints seem OK; the rack ends are as new regarding tightness Steering effort is still heavy at 50mph; but with our tight, bumpy roads and draconian traffic police (speed kills, you know) you don't get much chance to get around a corner at 50 mph that needs that much lock..... The rack spear looks straight, but I'll clock it between centres to make sure. The grease certainly looked past its use-by date; I'm thinking of using a Redline red-moly grease to replace it. I checked the alignment figures before I stripped the car; they were right on spec for the year. Having said that, 7 deg caster seems a lot; anyone got their car set at less than that? If anyone has has a 328 or similar fitted with "my" tyres, and would like to engage in a little experimentation, could they drop their front tyre pressures to, say 29 psi, drive it briefly and report if the steering was heavier than they were used to?? ( if you carry out this test, please remember to re-inflate the tyres to the recommended pressure afterwards - sorry; a bit of liability phobia coming through..) Thanks again all!!
Check the tire pressure plate in the car (console box)??? ON my older 308GTBs there's a big stagger front/rear...it's like 28FRT/34REAR.. There's also a chance this car has been fitted with a close ratio rack, available from a vendor in UK..... I run the 16" GSD3s all 'round I can't say that's caused me any troubles....
Same tyres as mine, correct sizes. Tyre pressure possibly even a little high (33 is correct I think) No need to carry out the experiment, I already know the answer(!) Dropping the tyre pressure will make it even heavier. These cars always need a "firm hand" & I'd never describe the steering as "light" at any speed. 328s are also very lively with a lot of steering feedback - especially on bumpy roads. Best way to describe it is it feels a bit like a big go-kart. I've a strong suspicion that if you drove another car it'd feel exactly the same as the one you are working on! How old are the tyres (what are the last 4 digits of the DOT numbers?) I.
The tyres are German-made, and don't appear to have a DOT marking on them; at least nothing laballed as such, or with the letters "DOT" in the number. DOT-marking is not a requirement for the NZ market; nor is it for the UK, where these tyres were purchased. They are about a year old, I think, and hardly worn. Hardly even scrubbed-in, in fact. The owner's manual that came with the car lists the cold tyre pressures as 37.5psi, front and rear.
All UK tyres should have a DOT number on them - last 4 digits denote week and year of manufacture i.e. 4006 would be a tyre made in week 40 of 2006. DOT numbers can sometimes be on the inside of the tyres i.e. you either need to take the wheel of or stick it up on a ramp to see them. The owners manual lists 37.5psi F&R for Pirelli P700s. For Goodyears it says 33 Fr & 36 R. I tend to run mine at about 32 & 34 That said, the pressures listed in the manual are pretty irrelevant I think - they were for designs of tyres that were on the car nearly 20 years ago! To be honest though , I don't think you have a problem with the tyres - there doesn;t seem to be anything wrong with them & the pressures are fine. If there is a problem you need to look elsewhere, but, as above, there doesn't seem to be anything particularly untoward. Is the owner compaining that the steering has got stiffer over a period of time or something? I.
Is the owner compaining that the steering has got stiffer over a period of time or something? Not as far as I know. The car has only been in the country for a short time, and the owner has always coped with the steering; I raised the issue when I could feel the steering column UJ's bumping over while steering at low speed, and noting that the rack was writhing in its mounts when this happened. I think that I'll attack the problem this way: I'll recondition the front wishbones and repace the inner bushes (I've found a really well-priced urethane part for this - let you know how it goes!!) Recondition the Bilstein shocks, convert them to adjustable height overhaul the rack and wheel bearings Reassemble everything, put the car on my corner-weight scales and turntables and read out what's happening. Any thoughts and suggestions most welcome; will report as it happens!
The caster angle sounds way too high to me. The recommended tollerance for a 328 is between 4.40' and 5.20' With the caster angle that far out the "alignment on turn" will alter considerably the more you turn towards full lock. How does the car feel doing low speed manouvers on half - full lock ? Do the wheels feel as if scrubbing. I had this very same problem. The "tow in" in the "straight ahead" position was perfect but the further I turned the steering from centre, the more the alignment changed. When reversing at low speeds on full lock I could feel the scrub on the r/h front tyre as it was being pulled into line with the rest of the car. All down to having insufficient caster on the right front suspension.
G'day Peter, I had the same problem with my 328 when I first started driving it. Rack on the car was fine as were all suspension bushes and Koni shocks. (3x8's all have Konis OEM). Replaced the F1GS-D3'S due to them being square and hard but it didn't really change the heavy steering. I then checked the steering out and found the bush at the firewall was really dry so lubed that, but the biggest problem was the steering shaft universals weren't completely in-line with each other. Aligned them correctly and the car is excellent now.
Bruce, Could you elaborate on the steering column shaft u-joint alignment that you did? Perhaps I'm just not seeing the obvious, but why would that make a difference in that the u-joints are design to pivot in any axis... Thanks, David
Hi David, A universal (2-clevis/block style) is a variable velocity joint. It accelerates and decelerates twice per revolution. If you have 2 universals joined by a rod out of phase, it will cause the joints to be fighting each other, which in this application is felt more so once under load. Apex joints are constant velocity as are regular drive shaft CV's and don't offer the same alignment issues as universal joints. Hope that helps Bruce
Bruce, I never considered this (u-joint) mis-alignment to be a factor in the "odd steering feel" in my BB...But can now see why! I never drew the parallel to your driveshaft analogy. Your insight is appreciated. Thanks, David
I recently got my car and do feel it's hard to steer. Certainly at parking speeds, but, more concerning to me, at quick corners. I'm running P-Zero's R: 245-45ZR16 F: 225-50ZR16 Does anyone suggest anything different/better? Thanks!
As it was already been said I put new tyre when I got my 328 and I was surprised how high the difference was with new tyre. But your front tyre are 225/50 R16 ? The original are 205/55 R16, this could be one reason. Still with original rims ?
Appreciate your comment. Installed Dec. 2018 so almost a year and a half ago. I supposed that would not be considered all in a car like this, right? Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
