Kimi, Alonso, Kubica are finally showing their stuff.... here's why?

Lindsay_Ross · Jul 12, 2007

Very interesting read. Sounds viable to me, especially considering Kimi's aggressive balls-out driving style and Alonso's "hacking" style both of which seemed to be more suited for the grippier Michelin rubber.

http://www.itv-f1.com/Feature.aspx?Type=General&PO_ID=40027

In the first half of the year Kimi Raikkonen, Fernando Alonso and Robert Kubica all struggled to overcome their team-mates and live up to expectations.

But Silverstone proved that all three are now back to their best. Expert analyst Mark Hughes explains why the 2007 Bridgestones were the root cause of their slow starts, and examines the implications for the rest of the year.

Kimi Raikkonen, Fernando Alonso and Robert Kubica gave us arguably the three stand-out performances of Silverstone.

Kimi by winning the race in a flawless way, making him the first triple winner of the season.

Fernando by making Kimi work for it despite being in a car that was significantly slower on the day.

Kubica because in the two consecutive races he’s done since that terrifying Montreal crash, he’s been ‘The Man’ at BMW, completely eclipsing Nick Heidfeld and comfortably winning ‘division two’ behind the Ferrari/McLaren battle.

All three of these drivers spent much of the first half of the season struggling against their team-mates.

Each of them were coming from Michelin tyres onto single-supply Bridgestones and were against team-mates not having to make that adjustment.

Raikkonen’s team-mate Felipe Massa spent all of 2003 testing Ferraris on tyres very like those being used this year.

At BMW Nick Heidfeld spent the 2003 and ’04 seasons on Bridgestones with Sauber and Jordan respectively.

Being an F1 rookie, Alonso’s team-mate Lewis Hamilton had no Michelin experience to unlearn, and the Bridgestone control rubber on the GP2 car he drove last year, although a slick rather than a grooved tyre, behaved in a very similar way in terms of the driving style it demanded.

What the Bridgestones ask of their drivers is a style that doesn’t demand too much, too suddenly of the fronts.

Try to drive them like a Michelin by loading them heavily and being aggressive with the steering, and they simply don’t respond. They slip gently over the peak of their performance, losing the car valuable momentum on corner entry.

This is not a difficult thing to understand in theory, but to be at peak performance an F1 driver needs his every input to be instinctively the right one, leaving his brain with the spare capacity to apply itself to other vital matters.

The problem is, there are hundreds of sensations being received by the driver and probably 90% of them are irrelevant to his task. He has to filter which are the 10% that he needs to act upon.

That’s not an easy thing to learn when you fundamentally change the sensations you are getting from the most vital piece of sensory info of all – the grip of the tyres and how quickly it builds.

So when observers comment that world class F1 drivers shouldn’t be making such hard work of a simple change in tyres, that’s probably unfair.

They have each been able to get to within maybe a couple of tenths of their ultimate pretty much immediately.

But the last little bit – the stuff that has to come instinctively at the outer edges – takes a little longer. The recent turnaround in form of Raikkonen, Alonso and Kubica suggests it maybe takes half a season.

Only from this point are we probably now at a level playing field when we look at comparisons with their respective team-mates.

The second half of the season is likely to give us a more definitive comparison than the first.

As pointed out here before, Raikkonen’s underlying speed has not really been lacking alongside Massa, only his race consistency. But Silverstone suggested he had a significant speed advantage over Massa rather than mere parity.

Is Kimi in the process of stepping up a gear to leave Massa trailing?

At BMW similar questions must hang over Heidfeld, who had a very impressive looking first half of the year. But must we now ask if that was being flattered by his team-mate’s struggle. Was the BMW actually an even better car than it looked early season?

Certainly, Kubica’s recent speed advantage tallies with the pattern we saw when Robert first came in last year. Will Heidfeld have the speed to hit back and keep the younger guy in his place? That’s a very tough ask if Kubica is as good as he’s looked recently.

And Hamilton? For sure he has been helped by the tyre situation. But Lewis’ sensational form has been about much more than Alonso’s struggle with the rubber. Silverstone was his least competitive race of the year.

He made an incorrect set up choice on Friday, having not been at the Silverstone test two weeks previously, and crucially stayed with it too long – until it was too late to change. That was maybe the first symptom we’ve seen all year of his lack of F1 experience.

As a result, all weekend he had a car that was an oversteery handful in the fast corners.

He took some brave pills for his final run in the dying seconds and produced a pole lap out of nowhere – but even then it was actually slower than Alonso’s once you’d made the compensating sum for Alonso’s greater fuel load.

But Alonso is not going to be able to rely on Hamilton struggling for set up for the rest of the year.

Everything else we’ve seen so far suggests that Lewis is fantastically adaptable to balance changes in his car, smothers them with his silky touch.

Of the three Bridgestone converts, even if they have all now fully adapted to the tyres, I suspect Alonso has the toughest challenge ahead of him.
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It could be argued that they had all the pre-season to get used to the Bridgestones, but mind you that it wouldn't have been in an '07 race-trim car.

So anyways, i seriously think it bodes ill for their respective teammates. Hamilton is a star and rightfully so, but I think perhaps Alonso's experience will carry him home better than the young Briton the rest of the season, even if Hamilton takes the title due to his consistency early on vs. the rest f the grid. Well, that is unless Kimi and Scuderia Ferrari don't continue on the blitzkreig pace they've set at the last 2 races. Massa is a good Rubens. There for consistency and aiding in the Constructor's championship. He's definitely fast this season but methinks that's the F2007. Compared to the Iceman and D0uche, errr Alonso, Masser is just a test driver. Valuable still to his team. But no WDC, IMVHO.

Lukas · Jul 12, 2007

Thanks for that article, very interesting.
I don't really agree on Massa being a "Rubens" for Ferrari as he really has shown great speed and won 2 races this year.

As the article said, "The second half of the season is likely to give us a more definitive comparison than the first." This is so true, so from now on we are really going to see which drivers are faster.

Senna1994 · Jul 12, 2007

lindsay_ross_prosticute said: ↑

Very interesting read. Sounds viable to me, especially considering Kimi's aggressive balls-out driving style and Alonso's "hacking" style both of which seemed to be more suited for the grippier Michelin rubber.

http://www.itv-f1.com/Feature.aspx?Type=General&PO_ID=40027

It could be argued that they had all the pre-season to get used to the Bridgestones, but mind you that it wouldn't have been in an '07 race-trim car.

So anyways, i seriously think it bodes ill for their respective teammates. Hamilton is a star and rightfully so, but I think perhaps Alonso's experience will carry him home better than the young Briton the rest of the season, even if Hamilton takes the title due to his consistency early on vs. the rest f the grid. Well, that is unless Kimi and Scuderia Ferrari don't continue on the blitzkreig pace they've set at the last 2 races. Massa is a good Rubens. There for consistency and aiding in the Constructor's championship. He's definitely fast this season but methinks that's the F2007. Compared to the Iceman and D0uche, errr Alonso, Masser is just a test driver. Valuable still to his team. But no WDC, IMVHO.
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Excellent article thank you for the great post.

Remy Zero · Jul 12, 2007

wait for 2008. when both Kimi and Fred actually get used to the tyres and fit into the teams, it's gonna be their title

Remy Zero · Jul 12, 2007

wait for 2008. when both Kimi and Fred actually get used to the tyres and fit into the teams, it's gonna be their title

PSk · Jul 12, 2007

Makes possible sense, and Alonso is very agressive on his front tyres ... thus would have suffered massively.

Will be interesting to see what happens now on.
Pete

Lindsay_Ross · Jul 12, 2007

PSk said: ↑

Makes possible sense, and Alonso is very agressive on his front tyres ... thus would have suffered massively.

Will be interesting to see what happens now on.
Pete
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Yup.

He is a fxckin HACKER! If you watch some video of him in the R25/26 its like: [hack]Full lock then center then [hack]Full lock so on and so forth. Instead of smoothly holding an angle through a corner. I can't believe he doesn't just plow off the road overloading the fronts like that!!! <--- Oh wait, Canada '07, France '07 HAHAHA!!

Anyways, yeah that's why I think the theory makes a lot of sense. Also some of Kimi's "lapses of concentration" could either be over cooking the tyres a bit, or just not being able to correct like he could on Michelins.

I can also attest to tracking a car with different tyre compounds and heat ranges. Once you get used to something and you drive on somethine else it takes a WHILE to get used to it. While practice can really iron things out and get you comfortable, like the article says, there are points when instincts react and you do something that would have worked with the old tyres and the new ones just do not cooperate. Even if you conciously tell yourself you are on Bridgestones, sometimes like I said you react instinctively.

Sorry for typing so much. Just kinda relates to all the topics and discussions regarding Kimi and FA. Though I still think FA is a d0uche! Haha.

PSk · Jul 12, 2007

Alonso, 2 x F1 WDC versus Ross Lindsay, 0.

Yep FA must be really a d0uche! :yawn:
Pete

Lindsay_Ross · Jul 12, 2007

Oh, I forgot, WDC is reflective of one's personality.

It's all in jest, but I think after the 2nd WDC FA turned into a huge arsehole. Renault had a very competitive package that fit him well (and they sacrificed development of the R27 just to win that 2nd CC and WDC).

No?

PSk · Jul 12, 2007

lindsay_ross_prosticute said: ↑

... and they (Renault) sacrificed development of the R27 just to win that 2nd CC and WDC.
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Isn't winning the WDC and CC the whole point of competing in F1 in the first place ... so what were the sacrificing again?.

What really happened was Renault were being complacent, arrogant and forgeting about finishing off 2006, Alonso quite rightly kicked them in to shape.

Why also are we trying to judge a sports persons personality ... do we care?, and we do not even know the person. It always amazes me how people idiolise and think they know sports stars ... happens all the time. I did it myself, and thought Peter Brock (Australian touring car driver) was a legend, after his death we find out that he cheated constantly on his wife and beat his previous wife. Thus yeah Peter Brock was a legend on the track but nobody worth knowing off the track by the sounds of it.

So yeah you think you know Alonso from a few reporters comments and tv interviews ... yeah right! Lets stick to the motor sport ...
Pete

Lindsay_Ross · Jul 12, 2007

Don't know him personally, only from what people I know who have spoken with him. After WDC 1: very appreciative and humble. After WDC 2: Pompous and arrogant.

Just from what I've been told.

PSk · Jul 12, 2007

lindsay_ross_prosticute said: ↑

Don't know him personally, only from what people I know who have spoken with him. After WDC 1: very appreciative and humble. After WDC 2: Pompous and arrogant.

Just from what I've been told.
Click to expand...

Oh well just as well I separate the sports person from the "other" person ... thus I can still like the driver

Pete

R2112 · Jul 13, 2007

lindsay_ross_prosticute said: ↑

Very interesting read. Sounds viable to me, especially considering Kimi's aggressive balls-out driving style and Alonso's "hacking" style both of which seemed to be more suited for the grippier Michelin rubber.

http://www.itv-f1.com/Feature.aspx?Type=General&PO_ID=40027

It could be argued that they had all the pre-season to get used to the Bridgestones, but mind you that it wouldn't have been in an '07 race-trim car.

So anyways, i seriously think it bodes ill for their respective teammates. Hamilton is a star and rightfully so, but I think perhaps Alonso's experience will carry him home better than the young Briton the rest of the season, even if Hamilton takes the title due to his consistency early on vs. the rest f the grid. Well, that is unless Kimi and Scuderia Ferrari don't continue on the blitzkreig pace they've set at the last 2 races. Massa is a good Rubens. There for consistency and aiding in the Constructor's championship. He's definitely fast this season but methinks that's the F2007. Compared to the Iceman and D0uche, errr Alonso, Masser is just a test driver. Valuable still to his team. But no WDC, IMVHO.
Click to expand...

Very interesting. Thanks for the post!

Michael Collins · Jul 13, 2007

Kimi and Alonso taking a year to get used to the tyres at over 25 million $ a year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If this is so then these two should pay their respective teams for privilage of driving for the two best teams and not being able to adjust to the tyres in the first half of the season.

Come on guys these two are supposed to be the best of the field, and both have been out driven by their less experienced team mates so far.

At least Kimi does not blame everything on those around him. He may have won the last two GP's but he has a long way to go this season, Massa will not lie down and but for the start problem which Ferrari attribute to something on the car not Massa. Then Kimi may have been second, for sure Alonso would have been passed by Massa.

Alonso on the other hand whines about everything and everybody, it is tearing him apart that Hamilton is doing better than him just mow.

But these two drivers had better get their acts together fast there are plenty of drivers coming through these days and getting younger all the time.

Scuderia980 · Jul 13, 2007

Michael Collins said: ↑

Kimi and Alonso taking a year to get used to the tyres at over 25 million $ a year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If this is so then these two should pay their respective teams for privilage of driving for the two best teams and not being able to adjust to the tyres in the first half of the season.

Come on guys these two are supposed to be the best of the field, and both have been out driven by their less experienced team mates so far.
/QUOTE]

did ya not read the article?..."both have been outdriven by their less experienced team mates"...those 'team mates', they actually have much more experience with japanese rubber... lastly, for me at least, i found it very very difficult (and still currently work in progress) to 'unlearn' my instinctive abilities (developed through many years) once an outside source was brought in to help maximise my ability. as different conditions arise throughout any competitive career, having to adapt is inevitable. but assuming it's always straightfoward, or simple, is just that..an assumption. even if they get paid ridiculous amounts of money.
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DGS · Jul 13, 2007

Half a year and seven GPs to adapt to new tires?

Ever change the tires on your car? Did it take half a year and seven track days for you to grok the new grip?

These are *professional* drivers.

Oh, yes: and *everybody* is adapting to the new "one of each" tire rules.

Lindsay_Ross · Jul 13, 2007

DGS said: ↑

Half a year and seven GPs to adapt to new tires?

Ever change the tires on your car? Did it take half a year and seven track days for you to grok the new grip?

These are *professional* drivers.

Oh, yes: and *everybody* is adapting to the new "one of each" tire rules.
Click to expand...

Its not like their lap times have been slow. Kimi and Alonso have been some of the fastest all year (specifically Kimi!!!)

Its just all those... "lapses" of concentration etc that everyone is talking about. You can get used to something quickly. Adapt to it and able to churn out fast laps, adjust braking zones, and turn-in points. But while going through traffic lets say and that arse in the Spyker cuts into your line going 10 mph slower and you instantly react how your instincts cause you to and your tyres don't stick it right and you have a quick romp through the gravel... well, that's a little more probable.

I just think its something worth reading about. We're not talking a trackday pushing 80% to even 90%. We're talking on the ragged edge 100% in cars faster and more brutal than anything we on this site have actually driven at our trackdays. Even in karting my friend (regional cham and national competitor alongside Scott Speed and the like in SKUSA) was explaining how big of a difference tyres make and how switching compounds, brands, or series really screws you up when your reactions might not produce the same results as other tyres.

As for the number of races.... I don't think its a matter of clicking on a switch, "Ok you're clear to go fast again." Kimi and FA were never slow all season. Its just a matter of more experience bringing them PAST the level of the rest of the best and back to their pinnicle, IMVHO.

Lindsay_Ross · Jul 13, 2007

Also, its a matter of testing and all the various circuits and finding a setup that works with the car and the tyres and the driver's style. That's not just telling the driver to adapt to the new car. Its a process that involves the entire team and engineers constantly improving and refining the complete package. And part of that package which is new to KR, FA, RK, etc.. is the Bridgestones.

callaides · Jul 13, 2007

Michael Collins said: ↑

...snip

Massa will not lie down and but for the start problem which Ferrari attribute to something on the car not Massa. Then Kimi may have been second...

But these two drivers had better get their acts together fast there are plenty of drivers coming through these days and getting younger all the time.

...snip
Click to expand...

As I said earlier to someone else; what race did you watch this past Sunday? Schumassa didn't have a chance in hell against Raikkonen in England.

And to the second part about [Kimi and Fernando] losing their jobs...please visit this thread:
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=157937

You are aware that Kimi is probably the fastest man in F1 and Fernando is the reigning two-time Driver's World Champion?

Andreas, we need a Racing and Tracking for Dummies section just under the regular forum.

GERRA456gt · Jul 13, 2007

At the end of the day i think that Kimi will do the job, that he was set to do at ferrari. he will win the WDC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Scuderia980 · Jul 13, 2007

DGS said: ↑

Half a year and seven GPs to adapt to new tires?

Ever change the tires on your car? Did it take half a year and seven track days for you to grok the new grip?

These are *professional* drivers.

Oh, yes: and *everybody* is adapting to the new "one of each" tire rules.
Click to expand...

when was the last time you, or anyone else here, tried to drive at 99.9999% limit in a top level Formula 1 car??? us mortals and our cars, personal track days, have jack squat to do with this debate. apples to watermelons. also, 'adapting' to the new tires involves engineers and drivers. oh, yes, everyone at Renault are "professionals", coming off 2 championships even , and they still can't come to terms with getting that last tiny bit out of the Japanese rubber-- car and driver both. your last line...yes 'everybody' is adapting. some better than others, some falling on their arse--even after half a season. but according to your opinion, anyone who is not by now competitive should be ashamed, after all, they are "professionals". heh...

stevanford · Jul 14, 2007

Interesting post but i don't agree with it. Kimi wasn't struggling in the first seven races of the season. He won the first race very comfortably and came on the podium twice. Yes he did go through a run of bad results but it wasn't as bad as they make it seem. Alonso won 2 races in the first half of the season and was on the podium a few times when he didn't win. I wouldn't say they were still getting used to the tyres i think they just went through a poor patch.
Kubica, i don't know much about him i really didn't follow his results. I paid more attention after the crash at Montreal

LightGuy · Jul 14, 2007

Another way in which statistics can prove just about anything if you seek the ones that wish to prove ones point.
Problem is that;
1. Kimi won first race ( same tire manufacturer )
2. Lewis grew up in carts as Alonso. Similar technique.
3. As mentioned before , these are PROS , used to adapting to a track or car condition LAP PER LAP let alone a tire manufacturers fixed philosophy on construction used throughout a season.
Neat thoery though.

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