McLaren Charged by FIA!

+1

 

+1
That's it. Winning with a cheated car isn't winning, neither for the team nor for the drivers.

 

tonyc all very good points. Lets not forget it was McLaren at the season opening in Australia they asked for clarification on the moveable floor in the F2007. And in doing so forced a rule change from the FIA who subsequently toughened up its floor tests. Ferrari is claiming that has hindered them in their progress this season.

One does not have to only make changes to their car, you could simply make life difficult for your competitor in other ways. FIA has got to be looking if that information was obtained from the documents, and if so, decide if that was a prejudicial act.

FIA has already stated that actions could include points being taken against both the team and the drivers.

 

Why hasn't anyone else seen this very obvious point of PREHAND knowledge?

Or does McL have x-ray vision goggle too?

 

There are a few of you who do not like when I defend Ferrari. Its very obviouse that you are not Ferrari fans. Oh yes you make your vale attempts at backing one or the other Ferrari drivers but all in all you make very little sense in this Maclaren vs Ferrari legal challenge. The 3 or 4 of you take every little detail to the infinite point. I swear some of you think you are or might even be lawyers. The facts here are very simple. Maclaren was caught with personal property that belongs to Ferrari. That property contained information that could have and more than likely altered the season to the Maclarens advantage. It now looks like they had that information since the very start of the season. Therefor they should be punished and so should the drivers as they were more than likely using ilegal cars. Is that so hard to comprehend? But no it must be Ferraris fault that information relating to everything on their F2007 car and race stratagy was stolen and then that info shared amongst what now looks like at least 3 major players in the Maclaren house and all of them are Ron Dennis' left and right hand men.
So tell me Im wrong to be a member on a Ferrari site and to back Ferrari in what looks to be a huge scandle in which Ferrari have done no wrong and their closest rivals are beating them by cheating in the most repulsive way.

 

If a Ferrari employee sends out confidential documents, and McLaren is guilty of receiving them, had they turned them over immediately, then I would think those events would cancel each other out. FIA loves offsetting penalites.

As to who fired whom and when, I would think none of that matters since it is all after the fact, as a means to save face. One possibility is perhaps McLaren could have fired Couglin as soon as they learned about the documents, but that would mean the news would have gotten out sooner, which would not have allowed them as much time to study the documents. So that works against them.

I'm wondering if McLaren hangs Couglin out to dry, what he might reveal in court in an effort to save himself.

I'll agree its very bad for the fans no matter how it turns out.

IMHO

 

a few of us have mentioned it but it went straight over the heads of the ostriches, those "racing fans" that want to see a "good tussle" even if it means that someone has cheated Ferrari and others (BMW have been doing very well this season" of better placings at the end of the day.

Ferrari have done some atrocious things in the past but that does not condone all the sins of the future perpetrators

 

The flexi floor question and how Maclaren knew about it is one of about 30 questions that the FIA is preparing to ask Maclaren on July 26th in Paris. I myself wondered back then how they could have known about the Ferrari floors.

 

You bring up a very good point and a question that I hadn't thought about. It should be interesting to see how they explain this one. We can clearly see the McLaren front wing flexing under speed, but there's no way you can see any of the car's floors and what they're doing.

 

You are forgetting that one is not suppose to steal in the first place, regardless how great the temptation is. Any security plan/device can be broken into, especially when it is an inside job by a highly ranked member. Stepney, even know that he didn't get promoted, he certain still has the rank and authorization those docuements, if he indeed is quilty of it.

+1. Someone will have to take the blame for things such as this, that person will usually be relatively highly ranked within the system/company, so it will not look too obvious that it is a cover up. Couglin fits the bill as he is pretty much middle management who is of no use to McLaren, considering that he was passed up for a promotionto Technical director when Newy left.

We all know that Ferrari is the root of all that is evil, when anything goes wrong in F1, it is always Ferrari's fault. Even when their confidential files gets stolen and were found in a rival team's house or head quarter, let's bash Ferrari just for the heck of it.

 

I still say this is the greatest season turning around event that Ferrari could have ever produced, Enzo would have been proud .

Getting Stepney to take a fall like this for the greater good of the company is most impressive.

Stupid McLaren for falling for this trick . We all loose as an interesting season is turned into yet another single team domination, and I don't care which team it is, it's still boring.
Pete LOL

 

sorry Pete, I love seeing Ferrari dominate EVERY race, .......21 years of torture will do that to you .... you become a sadistic 'fan'

If I want to watch some exciting racing I'll watch MotoGP, and not doing too well there either with Rossi trailing Stoner..... I wonder if Yamaha designer sent the papers over to Ducati ??

 

I have forgotten more about Ferrari and Formula 1 than you currently have knowledge of either.

 

BTW: 355 it's McLaren not MacLaren ...

As for the rest of the posts on this thread ... pretty sad really, basically a "my ***** is longer than yours pissing match". And yes Moretti I sat through most of those 21 years, but **** F1 has become really boring in the last 6 years .

Maybe I'm loosing interest, but watching Ferrari (any team) dominate is worse than watching cricket and I hate cricket.
Pete

 

Macdonalds, Maclaren, Macheatin who cares.......Im a Ferrari fan. As for boring..Well if your not a Ferrari fan then boring it must be......That Italian National anthem sound great.
If it takes cheating to make a good season then Ill pass.

 

Well then Im sorry for you.

 

AH HAHAHAHA ! When would you like this match......I'm sure I can piss you under the table

 

I love cricket

best insomnia cure I have ever found, especially when England are playing the Aussies

Since '80 the racing has been the SAME, one or 2 teams dominates, so how can you say that it is only the last 6 years ??!!

'83 was a strange year as Ferrari were very dominant but lost GV and then DP in accidents but still amassed enough points to win the WCC .

I do not get excited when another team wins, could care less if McL get a point or not but I do like to see drivers having a go , most don't, but it is obviousl why they don't , the aerodynamics at these speeds plays havoc with the stability of the following car.

I suggest that if we want exciting racing we remove the wings and give them back slick tyres, WINGS are BS !!

 

Just finished reading this - it's a translation of a newspaper article in Italy today:

Carol

* * * * *

First doubts on the “genesis” of spy story of the Formula One
Inseguimenti and surveillances after the history of the polverina
Therefore the Ferrari spied on Stepney
“They have had some Me to go”
The former ones employee: “There was the risk that someone was made badly”
The lawyer: “We will go back to the pursuers then we will go from the pm”
from our inivato MARK MENSURATI

Nigel Stepney
MODENA - Two fixed low-beam headlights to the center of the rear-view mirror. Always to the same distance, always to the same speed. For kilometers. Then, exausted and innervosito from that presence, Nigel Stepney scale, it accelerates and it tries to seed those two lights that have been attacked behind, sin from the airport of Bologna. But who is to the guide of that car is one that knows what ago, and it does not lose not even a meter. We are between Pavullo and Serramazzoni, in the heart of the Appennino. The road, silent and full of curves, is filled up of the noises of the pursuit. Stepney guides, and well, one Bmw. But those two beacons are not detached. Therefore the braccato man tries all for all. He nails and he comes down from the car. Forcing the pursuers to make equally. Approaching Stepney the detail has the time to learn to memory the plate number (, will be understood then because, it is decidedly important) and to consider that that type guides indeed well if it is successful to stargli behind with one station wagon.

Then the shop is opened: and the mechanic Ferrari finds itself two persons. “Who you are? What you want? Who sends to you”. Nothing. Hush. The shop richiude and those are gone some. Stepney returns in car, tries to tranquilize the moglie and leaves again. Three curves after others two beacons take the rear. Same distance, same speed, until via Garden Nord 4210. Stepney house.

It begins therefore, with this pursuit between Appennine hills, the last mystery of the Spy Story that is making red-hot the summer of the Formula One. And it is a mystery that risks to inguaiare the Ferrari, till now protect from its comfortable role of victim-director of the entire vicissitude. Because she would have been just the Ferrari to make to pedinare its mechanic infedele, to spy on it.

The asphyxiating and continuous shadowing of which the pursuit that we have told it is not that one, perhaps most unpleasant, of the episodes. To denounce it public it was the same Stepney, before abandoning Italy. “As soon as I was returned from my vacations in the Philippines (more than vacations, second the Ferrari, was furtiveness rising, ndr) when this thing happened. Someone risked is made of the evil therefore has decided to go some to me”. In that occasion the English mechanic always told of surveillances, microspies and other inseguimenti.

In the words of Stepney the Ferrari did not accuse itself explicitly. But enough to make more a little questions in turn for having of one confirmation of the hand of the Little horse behind those inseguimenti. Our behavior - it is in short the position of Maranello, than officially not rilascia some declaration on the point - has been perfectly legal: there was a dependent infedele and we have decided to make clarity on the entire vicissitude.

Considerations that, obviously, at all are not shared from the lawyers of Stepney: “At a convenient time - the lawyer announces Sonia Bartolini - we will make our considerations. Now we are trying to go back from the plates to the subjects that pedinavano Stepney and then provvederemo to make denunciation. Sure if it were confirmed that behind there is the Ferrari, the thing would be indeed serious: an account is to control a dependent at the work place, an account is to spy on it to house its and to follow it of night while it returns from the vacations. If therefore it were, those of Maranello will be call to you to answer some in court”.

The only point is not this on which the two parts they contrast apparently in inconciliabile way. According to the Ferrari the “controls” on Stepney would be begin to you endured after the vicissitude of the polverina (the technician had been been strange while, second the accusation, tried to get rid of the powder white woman whom it had as soon as tried to insert in the tanks of the Ferrari leaving for the great prize of Monaco). According to Stepney the pedinamenti and the surveillances would be begin to you quite a lot of time before.

The thing can be more important than how much it seems. Because it could throw a new light on the genesis, that it remains however enough particular, of all the vicissitude. That, if every thing was confirmed, would go then framed various, even in one complicated issue from dispute of job rather than in one simple degenerated sport vicissitude for via of one incomprehension or some ambition outside control.

The truth will know itself in the turn of little days. Even if the main innovationes, in this moment, are attended more from the sport world - than July to Paris will gather in order to decide on this the 26 history - than do not give that penitentiary. The prosecuting attorney of Modena, Giuseppe Tibis in fact has closed, just yesterday morning, first part of its surveying. He does not remain that to wait for some advisings entrusted to the Ris of Parma and the experts. First he turns out to you are attended for the August beginning. With those answers, the issue could be gotten rid remarkablly. But in order then the circus of the Formula One could already not be more what we know.
(15 July 2007)

 

Because only really in the MS era did we have no racing between team mates. In the Prost and Senna era at McLaren we had the best racing on the modern era.

Even with Hakenin and Coulthard while they may have had agreements they atleast pretended to race ... Irvine's, Barrichello's and Massa's sole purpose was to be road blockers for the great MS :yawn:

Formula 1, Well yep as I said great thread this one ... too many children allowed internet access IMO. Mine works that's all that matters

BTW: 355, racing is only racing when there are more than one "horse" er competing ... so I'm a racing fan first, then a Ferrari fan. I like watching Ferrari beat worthy opponents not just circulate.
Pete

 

Carol, if you actually read and understood that (the translation not the original Italian), you have a uniquely well-developed brain.

 

Hi Pete,
I will agree, it gets boring watching any one team, continually dominate the track and podium, no matter who that team may be.

BUT, IMO, that does not mean that McLaren as a team (including DC points) should not go unpenalized, particularly since it is reported that: Coughlan stated that more than just him and Neale were involved at McLaren.

It has tarnished the season and the sport as well, McLaren should pay dearly for that.

It will forever diminish Hamilton's rookie season achievements and I am sorry for that, but we do not know what percentage of those, were augmented by McLaren's illegal possession of the Ferrari documents. Of course it is not LH or FA's fault, but they are just tangled in the mess. They can direct their anger at McLaren also.

Bill

 

True and do agree, just that it's a shame.

Pete

 

Pete you are my new friend.

 

I just don't think Bruce would have done it that way....

Bill