P-Car Guy lurks and Learns - high mileage 360's

I just joined, but have been on Rennlist for some time. I am currently enjoying my 993 coupe, spirited drives and some track driving. Wondering if an F-Car is in my future....

I know the A-Z about P-cars (I have had and enjoyed three), but know nothing about Ferrari. I will lurk and learn as much as I can right here!

Keep in mind that this is complete culture shock for me... but I was wondering how much reliable use I could expect out of a 360 for example?

How bad would 5,000 miles a year be from a maintenance standpoint? Besides oils changes, what are the major Ferrari-sepcific annual and mileage related services, and what is a typical annual service cost?

Thanks in advance for any comments. I'll lurk politely until I have more specific questions.

Cheers~!

Matt

 

As a fellow Porsche owner (996TT), an F-car view of driving and maintenance takes getting used to. For the most part, 5k per year is high for these cars so maint + depreciation will be a factor if you keep the car for several years. Budget $1 per mile (my Porsche runs about 8 cents per mile).

 

I hate to sound like I count the pennies it cost to drive my Ferrari but that dollar a mile estimate is pretty darn close

 

os I was a Porsche guy prior too !

 

Ex Porsche guy here too. I owned about 10 Porsches over the years and kept thinking it was the model or the color or the options that kept me moving in and out of them....Finally, I bought a Ferrari and realized it wasn't the models, colors or engine specs. It was the car. You will find no comparison between driving any Porsche and a Ferrari.

Porsche has become such a production monster, that they've sucked much of the life and spirit out of their cars.

As for 5,000 miles being "ALOT" for these cars, that is probably spoken from people who don't drive their cars as regularly as they should (sorry to make that assumption, but...)

the 360s are a simple car mechanically and the horror stories you hear about engine tuning and issues are from the past. I'm not saying these cars are worry free, but whatever the worries, will be worth the driving experience.

I would love to help more if I can. Please let me know.

Joe

 

No, its from someone who studies car prices like it was a religion......case in point, '99 360.......at 7 years old, a 5k mile/yr car has 35k miles......trust me, you don't see many of these.

 

Welcome. I've been here a pretty long time, and had several ferraris before i bought my first porsche. (I currently have a 993 C4 Cabrio and a 6.0 Lambo).

The Ferraris are typically a more visceral experience, but the market for modern production ferraris (ie, those, say, after 1969) is unusally mileage sensitive compared to Porsche. Which means that you could take advantage of this as a buyer, if you get a right car. Do not buy on impulse or appearance. Do get a competent PPI and service history.

People with experience on the paddle shift 360's should chime in here, since that may be a weak point.
And, unless you just don't give a ****, you are not going to park that car where you might otherwise feel Ok about leaving your porsche.

You might also try a 12 cyl. car even if you are just getting your feet wet. Oh, yeah, I know, service costs are even higher, but ferrari parts aren't cheap for the 8, service ain't cheap for the 8 unless you do it yourself, and what's a few thousand more bucks anyway.
The 550 is a bargain, and in my estimation, far more car (in every respect, good and bad) than the 8 cyl. cars. Yet, it won't be tossable like the small ferrari. You probably owe it to yourself to experience it, though, before you throw the money down.

 

There are two types of F car owners.....Drivers and Garage Queens.
Sorry to be blunt, but it's what I have observed. Im not knocking the
guy who puts 1000 miles per yr on his car, but I just don't get it.
It is a fact that guys like me who drive the piss out of their cars
will pay for it in depreciation. It's also a fact that I get so much
joy out of my 430 that I don't give a rats ass about depreciation!
I friggin' love my car to death. I owned 3 911's over the years
and as much as I wanted to love them I just couldn't. The Ferrari
cars just have that thing that can only be described as soul and
personality. The Porsche cars have been getting more watered
down every year. The 993 is still a cooler car than a 996 or 997.
Anyhow, you can't go wrong with a 360 in my opinion. They are
gorgeous (as much or more than my 430) and they drive like
demons. Just be prepared because these are not German cars
and you need to be a bit patient once in a while. The pros beat
out the cons by a million. GO FOR IT!!

 

I am a former Porsche owner so here are my thoughts. Porsche was always my dream car and as soon as I had enough money to ordered my first one from the dealer. 2000, 996 will all the options that I could put on the car. I thought it was the cat’s ass until I found myself at the Ferrari dealership looking at a Yellow 360. Once I was standing next to it with the Tubi singing and smelling the leather interior I was sold and this was without even driving it. It was a religious experience to say the least. The next day the Porsche was up for sale and I took a 30K hit on 16 months of ownership and did not even care knowing that soon I was going to be a Ferrari owner.

Once you own and drive a Ferrari you will understand, it is like nothing else. A Porsche is just a car a Ferrari transcends almost anything else you will ever own in every way. They will make 33,000 997 this year and only 2,500 430. It is a lifestyle and a true passion, at least for me.

It is not weather you can drive 5,000 miles a year it is more about how you will want to treat your car and where you want to take it. I drive my 430 and have put 7K miles on it already. I am a hybrid, I drive my car and drive it hard but it is kept and babied like a garage queen, always VERY clean and serviced. It is more about where you will want to take your Ferrari. It is not an everyday car like a Porsche and soon after owning it you will understand, it is somehow about respect for the car and where you want it to go. I would not make this a 360 an everyday car in any way. It is much like having a child and where you feel comfortable letting your kid play…

Do it you will never look back…

 

Finally someone is here to join me. I am new here and this is my first post. I am also a 996 owner and still have my 02 SMG M3 which I bought in 02 because I wanted to be like the F-1 360 at the time. I am very excited because I am about to make a purchase on an 02 360 F-1 tomorrow at 4PM. I have been dreaming about this car for over 5 years and finally got enough money and found the perfect one (Red, tan daytona seat with red insert and piping, challenge grills, upgraded sound and 6kmiles but still need to get the exhaust.) Ofcourse, I have to sell the poor 996 cab which I only bought for a year and put in over $16K in all the mods and like all others will take a big loss in the price even if I part the car out.
The way I look at it is that this is a special moment of a man/woman's life, it's not for everyone or just for the rich. It's an art form and I am looking forward to my experience on owning one as well. I promise my self that I will never sell the M3 and I will not and the same promise will be kept for the Ferrari, especially my first one. I hope you are looking forward to yours as I am to mine. Read thought this forum as much as you can, I have read enought that I know I am going to love it.

 

Scott... great post.

I have both a 993 Cab and a 360 (F1). The 993 goes where the 360 can't, but I drive the 360 as often as is possible/practical.

Enjoy these cars... they're amazing machines.

Frank

 

Buy it , drive it , love it.......if you can't enjoy driving it because of the worry about depreciation then what is the point of buying one ......

You'll be shafted by the dealer come resale regardless of how much or how little mileage goes on it so why worry, just get out there and let her loose for 100 miles or so after all that is what she was designed for ..... then wash her wax her and wait with baited breath for your next fix .....

 

I too have owned and raced many Porsches....suddenly got the urge for a 360 and am looking for early/high milage coupe....red/tan/F1...this is a great site for learning.

 

I think some people really do misunderstand the reasons why some people only put 1,000 miles on their car in a year.

Its nothing to do with 'saving it for the next person' or worries regarding depreciation or other things of such nature (I'm sure some people are concerned about those things but not everyone who does low mileage does so for those very reasons). It is called living a hectic life.

I myself travel extensively, it really does get in the way of driving my f-car! There is nothing I like more than driving my 360 but I spend more time away from my home than I usually stay in it! When I first bought my 360 a couple of years ago now within 2 weeks of the purchase I had to spend nearly an entire year working 5,000 miles away from my home, only went back home 3 times - with no chance of getting much seat time. I didnt know it was going to take so long at the start but I was pretty upset to say the least.

 

Shark, I understand your focus, but the guy isn't asking about depreciation - he is asking about maintenance. To say that drivng these cars 5000 miles per year puts the car in jeopardy of major maintenance is incorrect IMO.

Joe

 

If you drive less than 5K per year you will hit the big maintenance on time (3 years) before miles (15K). That is about $4,000. Strickly speaking you only have to replace the belts at three years, not do the entire 15K maintence, but by the time the tech gets the belts off you probably want to do the whole thing. I think you would have to do oil twice a year instead of once a year if you drive 5K. According to the records with my car, an oil change at the dealer cost $185. Closed cover transport to the dealer was $400 though.

As a new owner the only two detractions I have found over other cars are (1) I feel very protective about the car, hate to get a nick or sap damage or scrape the front bumper or park it next to another car, and (2) this horid low milage cult which I am not immune to. I don't really care if the car is going to depreciate an extra ten or twenty percent if I drive it 18000 miles in the next three years but I suspect I might not be abe to sell it at 50% of what I paid because there are so many very low milage 360's out there and buyers really think low miles is important.

 

True, but coming from the Porsche world myself its the total cost of ownership paradigm he has to wrap his arms around. Its WAY different than any other car I've considered.......except Maserati......ouch on that depreciation.

Some things wear down.....examples are brakes and clutch, so he will have greater maintenance than a 2k/yr car. Some things just age out, no matter how much the car is driven......examples are tires and hoses.

 

Doug... I agree.

I've tried multiple times to not join the "low mileage cult", but find myself worrying about mileage more than I should. I'll even preach to others about "not saving the car for the next guy" and just when I think I'm doing OK, I'll read an ad for a used CS or 430 and immediately look for the mileage to make sure it wasn't driven too much.

Hypocritical, I know.

Frank

 

A Porsche is like kissing your sister.
A Ferrari is like making love to Sophia Loren.

Yes, Sophia is higher maintenance, but soooo worth it. If you don't enjoy taking care of her, you don't deserve her. Just live a mundane Walter Mitty life, pay your taxes and stay out of my way on the road.

Hope this helps. It is a life decision after all.

Maybe only 2,250 430s per year but only about half of those come to the US.

I would do it. Life is too short not to own a Ferrari.

 

Oh yeah, mileage.

If you were sleeping with Sophia Loren every night and only made love to her once in a while, I would say SHAME ON YOU.

Ferraris were made to be driven. when you are in your coffin are they going to say you didn't drive your car much, you were really a great guy? No, some lucky person will get your low mileage Fcar, drive the dickens out of it and die with a big grin on his face.

Drive the car. Before it's too late.

 

In my need to spew my opinion it never dawned on me that there are guys like you that have work schedules that keep them out of the drivers seat. I can't imagine having to leave home for so long just after getting your new Ferrari. I would be going nuts! Sorry to hear that buddy. I am also sorry for lumping you or any others in the Garage Queen category.
I guess that Im a bit of a hypocrit because I'm painfully aware of the fact that I now have 9000 miles on a car I bought brand new 7 moths ago. I check the market often to see where the current prices on pre owned Ferrari's sit. I have never seen any make that has so few miles on the pre owned cars! I get why people are afraid of buying a high mileage Ferrari, but I think it's mostly an irrational fear IMHO. That being said, I would prefer a low mileage car too.
I drive the car as often as possible. I have never owned a car that delivers
this much excitement. I also live in an area where I CAN drive it, not to mention the fact that my wife loves to be a passenger in it. How that stroke of luck happened i will never know.
I think I'll put 50,000 miles on my car over the next 3 years easily. I'll obviously be posting how the car is holding up now and then for you all to see. One thing I do know is that I will be having a very good time doing it!

 

Here in Japan people don't even put miles on to 911's. The highest mileage P car I have ever seen was a 1976 911 with 140,000 KM on the clock.

When I first moved here I bought a new 996 and put 24 K on it in 9 months, my dealer was shocked. He had never seen a car less than one year old with such a high mileage, I have done about 25K in my 24 month old 997 - I spend a lot of time overseas too - probably about 3 - 5 months a year.

When I do finally get a Ferrari its going to be a keeper. I will buy it and not sell it and add as many miles as I bloody well want every year! Sod the depreciation and the service costs! You gotta have some luxuries in life!

I have a few mates who count the miles they do - tragic - one of them counted the miles on his 986 Boxster and sold it for a huge loss when the 987 came out. He then bought a 997 and was acting the same way when within a month of ownership someone reversed into his car while parked at a car park and a 4 inch rock hit his roof at 80 mph. He doesn't care too much now and enjoys it everyday.

 

Great posts, guys - clearly you're as passionate about your cars as I am!

I agree that much of the appeal to Porsches has been eroded over the last decade - it's not a question of handling or speed, more of an intangible... I've always been a 911 guy and settled on a 1997 Carrera, last year of the base 2WD Coupes. Bought it last year a/ 16K miles and it's a keeper. Just have to take care of that ridiculously low mileage!!!

As for the genesis of my Ferrari search, I guess what would be helpful is to understand the typical service items for a 360 for example, and estimated cost. Lists/checklists such as these are pretty common for P-Cars and I assume there must be a common maintenance schedule that you all adhere to.

I would love to know what is involved - cost and content - in:

1. An annual (3K mile?) service
2. A "major" service
3. General costs to replace wear items (clutch on a manual,brake rotors and pads, shocks, etc.)
4. Anything else that is Ferrari specific?

Cheers~!

 

My sister is pretty F'in HOT then

 

Oddly, Vipers are the same way, severe $ penalty for cars over 10,000 miles.

Strange, because it has a truck engine, poor build quality, and an interior they spent about 50 cents for materials on.