Alonso v Massa

Both of these guys got a little hot under the collar right after the race and thats OK. Thats racing and it was very obvious that Massa had problems and Alonso was going to pass him. I think I could have passed him the way his car was handling in the rain LOL. Much different than when it rained earlier. I wonder if Kimi ran out of fuel and Ferrari dont want anyone to know that. All in all it was an entertaining race but I wouldnt want to see many races like that as it would not show who the real champion was but only who got the most luck out of the season. Last of all I hope Alonso never comes to Ferrari.

"Massa drove into Alonso's car because Alonso went there." agareed.

 

The rest of your post I agree with, but this sentence is retarded.

 

Massa's only problem with the car in the rain was his inability to drive it in the rain at a level anywhere close to Alonso's.

Where did this "problems with the car" BS come from? He was doing fine until the rain started - then Massa, who we know sucks in rain, lost the race to Alonso, a good rain driver.

It does a disservice to Alonso to claim that Massa lost due to some invented problem with the car (that mysteriously only happens when it rains, apparently).

 

That's fine. I can respect that you don't like MS or several other things about the team. it just seems like you've been so negative alllll the time here recently.
As for Massa, i do not "blindly" worship the guy, but i do like him. And i do acknowledge that he is not the best driver on the grid and he definitely needs some practice in the rain. BUT, The reason he was pissed after the race was because alonso confronted him about bumping him on track. In typical Alonso fashion, he was WHINING after the race cause Massa bumped him---and felipe was pissed that he was complaining like a little baby after he had WON the race.

Let's keep this discussion about racing and not character attacks. I apologize for "talking smack about your handle" and i'm not going to say anything further about it. I just ask the same in return---don't act like you're the only one here who has loved Ferrari for a long time. I don't need a "history lesson" i remember perfectly well when impy was here. Sorry i don't have 50 million posts----i don't have time to sit on internet forums and rack up my post count. That doesn't make me any less of a fan.

 

I fully respect you Mike as you have been here a while and make some good posts but I think that you are going overboard in your dislike of Massa here. It was very obvious even before Alonso caught up to Massa that Massa was strugling with the car and was having a problem. For you to keep saying that the problem was between the seat belt and the seat sounds like a good joke but thats about as far as anybody could handle that one.

 

Massa started to lose his lead before it started to rain again. Alonso would have caught up to him and probably passed him anyways, if in fact Massa did actually have a problem with his car (total BS). I just think Massa started to get nervous and lost it. The rain just made it that much better to watch.

I still think that the whole mass damper dispute was total crap, regardless of who asked for the clarification, since the FIA had approved the system a year prior, and to add salt to the injury, Ferrari has been running the rear wheel covers that violate the 1-piece wheel rule and the moveable aerodynamic aid rule, yet the FIA is fine with that despite the safety issue that we saw on Sunday with cars having to dodge the wheel disc from the Renault. And that whole penalty on Alonso for "blocking" Massa during qualifying last year was total horsesh!t. IMHO Bernie, et al wanted to help Schumacher get his 8th title before he retired.

Thank you Mike.

 

Excellent Post GoFerrari28 very well written.

 

Actually I was the one who said the problem was between the seat and the steering wheel, and I stand by my statement. Don't accuse Mike of that comment.

 

And that whole penalty on Alonso for "blocking" Massa during qualifying last year was total horsesh!t. IMHO Bernie, et al wanted to help Schumacher get his 8th title before he retired.

goferrari28 your wrong again .....its not up to bernie!

renault and the ultimate whiner himself alonso took the penalty so why shouldnt you?




I still think that the whole mass damper dispute was total crap, regardless of who asked for the clarification, since the FIA had approved the system a year prior

ferraris floor was approved too and then disapproved at the beginning of this year...they are not whining...why are you?????

 

Because the moveable floor was clearly designed to be a moveable aerodynamic device as opposed to the tuned mass damper which was fully enclosed within the car and not subject to any aerodynamic loads.

As for the blocking penalty, there wasn't a whole hell of a lot Alonso or Renault could have done to protest the penalty without the risk of an even greater penalty being loaded on for no good reason.

 

Just for the record

SCHUMI WAS GREAT IN THE RAIN.

He could teach Phil a thing or two in this area.

Alonso is great in the rain. Separates the men from the boys IMVHO.

Racing in the rain is much more interesting to watch. Someone suggested Bernie have sprinklers installed at all the tracks. LOL

Forza Ferrari

 

Yeah if they keep moving to South Asia and the Middle East they will need sprinklers.

 

And Senna could have taught Schumacher a thing or two about driving in the rain.

Oh wait a minute, he did...

Schumacher was one of the five drivers that Senna passed on the opening lap of Donington 1993, the single greatest drive in F1 history

 

Agree. People are reading too much into this.

 

FA is better than FM in the rain for sure, but I don't think I have seen enough to say that he is great. IMO, the two greatest drivers that I have seen when things gets slippery are Michael Schumacher and the late Aryton Senna, in no particular order, so Senna fans, please chill

Before somone start to talk about Donington in '93 left and right, top and bottom, inside and out, it actually helps to have a car that is down on power in the rain. Not saying Senna was not great, just saying that it is better to have a less powerful car under slippery conditions, as in the case of McLaren-Ford of '93.

 

It helps if the cars are equal not when you go against the Williams which had a much more sophisticated gizmo package.

 

IMO, the advantages Williams had over the rest of the field were the engine (Renault) and mainly the active suspension system. I am not sure the other electronic stuff on the car helps in the rain tho. In fact, IIRC, Williams of that era was never that great in the rain, even in '92. Remember the race Nigel Mansell became WC (Spa?), I think it was a rain race and Michael Schumacher won his first race as Nigel clinched his title by coming in second. Granted that Nigel did not have to push to win the race in order to win the title, but I would think that he would still have rather clinch the title as the winner of the race if he could.

Again, not taking anything away from the late Aryton Senna, as he had proven more than once of his mastery of handling a F1 car under any condition.

 

The blocking penalty did seem strange but it wasn't simply a "Schumacher over Alonso" thing. Earlier that season (I think it was the European GP) Fisi did the exact same thing to JV. It didn't look like there was really a block there but Fisi and Renault complained and the FIA gave JV the same penalty. I agree it was wrong but with that kind of precedent it's hard to say it was only done to help Schumacher.

 

I noticed that... and for me, after 30 years in a raw, with the G.P Circus on my sleeping pillow it was a strange thing to see.
I've discuss that issue in the Portuguese thread (in Portuguese).

Hamilton, didn't lost it's engine, He manage to keep it running, but he was helped by a crane!! The position was a dangerous one? So was Liuzzi's.

I think if he scored some points things would be different...

This is something FIA should pay attention to.

Mont

 

After 70 odd posts....... the result is still the same:

Felipe got owned. Dropped a massive lead and then had nothing to respond with fernando winning by 8 seconds or so. Even if fernando hadn't of made the pass, do you Massa whiners still think he seriously would have held him out for a further half dozen laps?

Wake up to yourselves.......... fernando was going to win that race, whether it be with 6 laps to go or the final turn.

 

And in 1996 in Spain... Mike showed everyone how to drive in the rain. He turned 4 seconds a lap quicker than anyone while driving off line and nobody knew what the hell was going on. That to me was the greatest drive ever in the rain...aptly called "The rain is spain" Race.

 

F1 drivers are paid to race and finish as high as possible. It isn't a wrestling match.

 

Bernie influences things all the time ... so yeah I wouldn't be surprised if Bernie did anything to make the "show" more interesting, and ofcourse make more coin.

I also think Massa turned right intensionally into Alonso ... dirty driving, and yeah I'd have been pissed also if I was Alonso.

Pete

 

Its amazing how many people keep chewing on Massa because he was passed in the rain more than likely because his car had problems. Yet when Alonso went off the track in Montreal 4 times you could sumize that Alonso is a bad dry weather driver. Face it, people love to go after winner it happens all the time. Knock Massa all you want but he is one of 4 that has a chance at winning the WDC while 18 others will be watching. If Massa ends up with more points than Alonso this year, does that mean that Alonso is a mid pack runner? I can still remember when everyone chewed on Michael when he was passed once by Montoya. They talked about it for a year.....Where is Montoya now?