Fédération Internationale de l'Automobile

After they've thrown to oblivion the entire purpose behind rules? Not so well.

 

They killed Group C.

http://www.***************.com/frame.php?file=car.php&carnum=1395

 

when the other F1 participants were threatening to start a break away series Ferrari was the first teams to align with FIA/F1 Administration. This single act (admittedly for a big slice of the royalties) did much at the time to stave off the "crisis". Today's sham verdict is unbelievably duplicitous repayment from the FIA.

Unlike some of the people on the other threads who say Ferrari should pull
out of F1, I actually think they (SF) should resurrect the whole breakaway series discussion, but this time lead the breakaway if for nothing else than to remind the FIA that without teams signing up then who the f.. are the FIA!!

 

A formula series with Ferrari and without the FIA? Sounds great to me. Maybe we'll get to see formula cars with freaking fenders.

 

a$$wipes

 

"This is a corrupt decision made by people who want to destroy motor sport. In our eyes the FIA has no value any more. They are not objective. This is a very sad day for the Belgian motor sport and for the sport as a whole."

http://www.planetlemans.com/cmsv2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2997&Itemid=2

http://www.pk-carsport.com/2007/en/nieuws/56/

 

careful of the heart Phil

it was the right decision, you know it, I know it, everyone knows it ... now if we can just convince Ferrari of it we can all move along

"I know nothing!!"
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The only rule that was broken was "sportsmanship", nothing else so lets all keep it in perspective.

1. It is not against the rules to know details about a competitors car, that is impossible.
2. It is not against the rules to know details about a competitors strategy, that is also impossible (first race usually gives that away).
3. The only thing wrong here is "morals" and OUTSIDE the sport IP laws.

If the FIA were going to come down on "fair play" then modern "sport" is fncked, because fair play went out years ago.
Pete

 

WWED?
'What would Enzo do?"
I think the same guy that told Ford to sod off would do likewise with the FIA and skip a couple of races. He certainly skipped races strategically on many occasions. It would essentially make the entire season meaningless (which some would argue it is now already), ensure at best only a hollow and overshadowed and uncontested victory for McL, and cost the FIA and Bernie millions of Euros in lost revenues.
Two races --that's all it would take.

 

plot ... lost , so now you're saying McL have no morals and had IP from another team but that is alright ??

if this is what it takes to make "racing interesting" then WWF is not far away

 

Agree.

And to rub it in, he would do Ferrari only demonstation races for the Tifosi and the FIA and Bernie would have to sit back and watch as Imola or Monza was completely packed to watch 2 cars race! Who has the power Mr Bernie?
Pete

 

John,

It's NOT against the rules. Read them, it cannot be. Engineers and drivers change teams all the time, thus knowledge transfers whether you like it or not. Plus you see the final design as you walk past the car in the pits or on the track.

The only rule that McLaren were questioned about was bringing F1 and the FIA a bad reputation, or words to that affect.
Pete

[EDIT:] Actually I am wrong, there apparently is a impossible to administer rule: The WMSC is satisfied that Vodafone McLaren Mercedes was in possession of confidential Ferrari information and is therefore in breach of article 151c of the International Sporting Code.

Again that is completely impossible to rule against, and would 100% halt motorracing forever if used. Every single car/team that has ever started a professional race would have broken that rule. If they haven't then they are not competitive and doing their homework.[/EDIT]

[EDIT 2:]Here is what Article 151c is:

Thus I was actually right, its a moral only rule ... and means nothing.[/EDIT 2]

 

If that's the case then why do all the Shumacher haters always moan about his lack of sportmanship? Shouldn't they just embrace it like they have embraced McLaren's?

 

Didn't say people like cheats, but it is different for a team to cheat verus a person.

Every single team cheats, well the competitive ones anyway.
Pete

 

Pete, you miss the point, moving to another team is fine taking what you've learned

SENDING the information to another team while you're STILL working for them is stealing, and the recipient knowing that is STOLEN is just as responsible.

FWIW I think McL gained nothing from the 780 page doco bar a few suggestions from Coughlan, as HEAD DESIGNER, as to what direction to take to overcome Ferrari ..... THAT would be commonsense to anyone, you can't say the HEAD DESIGNER has no say in the DESIGN of the car or influences strategy for races.

So if we agree on that then all Ferrari has to establish is how many McL personnel knew about the information and when they knew about it

If more than ONE person knew you can bet Lucifer knew about it

 

Yes but it is still only morally wrong within the SPORT. Legally is another thing and is outside the sport and to be frank, the FIA does not care about that. The right course of action here is for Ferrari to sue Stepney for breaking employee rules.

Thus its no different (conceptually, just more accurate) to an engineer standing beside a Ferrari while the cars are readied for the race and taking a couple of thousands of photos to analyse later. And Ferrari engineers will be taking photos too ...

Thus the FIA cannot rule against having another teams information. We have to remember the teams build cars, cars are physical things and once seen everybody learns lots about what they have designed. You cannot make that illegal, just not sporting.

You are making too much about HOW the information got there, it is just as bad for Ferrari if they just spoke ... so the fact that physical drawings end up at McLaren is insignificant. Again it's just morally wrong but done by all teams all the time (I would bet that Ferrari have a mole in every team, ie. somebodies aunt's neighbour's son works for BMW ... and thus the street BBQ takes becomes more interesting once the alcohol flows ).
Pete

 

This is also how the sport has advanced over the years. If no team was ever able to know anything about another teams car we would still be racing cart sprung dinosaurs.

Remember the wing car, a Chapman invention (actually not but he brought it to F1), his cars won big time but then the other teams COPIED. How did they do that with out knowing what Lotus was doing? ... based on what you are saying the FIA should have banned them all from using a Lotus (patented) idea.

What also about the Brabham fan car?, all those protests ... heck they should not have been looking at that competitors car, that implies they were gaining knowledge about it , no they should have kept their eyes shut and just got lapped.

What about the Ferrari invented steering wheel gear change? ... heck all the other teams should have all their points removed right back to when Barnard first built this concept. When was that in the late 80's or early 90s? ... thus MS was not the first WDC winner for Ferrari in 21 years it was Berger or Alesi .

Thus the end of motorsport as technically interesting right there! Thus McLaren did nothing wrong IMO, just were stupid enough to get caught. The FIA is only worried that people who do not understand this is the norm in motorsport will be morally upset and turn (the TV) back to a sport with a ball.

The law and sport should not be mixed ... sport simply suffers (ie. think yachting).
Pete

 

Except that under FIA's Concorde agreement, a team can be fined heavily if they miss a race.

Taking away McL's points would also have made this season meaningless. And "accessory after the fact" is still possible.

But there's a lot of other things to condemn FIA for.

FIA killed WRC, and is doing the same to F1.

Break Away!!

Let's get racing under the venue of someone who doesn't take his ball and go home because the Indy 500 gets more press in the US than F1. Who doesn't chase tobacco advertising into the boonies at the cost of traditional european circuits. Who doesn't toss three race bans at japanese teams when they look poised to break out of "also ran" status. Who doesn't toss arbitrary tire and engine rules at a manufacturer's series. Etc etc etc.

 

You are skirting common sence my friend and you have a morality issue too.

 

Yes, except now apparantly if you break a rule, it doesn't mean anything.
Apparantly, the rules are for keeping the smaller teams in line.

 

A breakaway series? Maybe this guy could help.
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And this is the standard by which you guide your life?

Then you are not on my team, ever.

 

Pete:

I think you are confusing laws vs. rules and the definition of cheating. There is a huge difference between conducting detailed analysis of photos and sounds taken of your opponants car in a public place (the track at a public event) which all teams do and the theft and/or receipt of Intellectual Property which is clearly a team work product.

Theft of Intellectual Property is against the law in Italy and in England. It is not covered directly under FIA rules.