ex gp driver john watson comments on mclarengate

While I agree with that, history has shown, that people have brief memories: Schumacher was banned for several races in 94 but clinched the title nevertheless and that title counted just as much as his 6 other titles.

So once Hamilton has a few titles in the bank, it won't matter anymore what the team did in 07.

 

I agree. I just don't think people care enough about this--it's comprised of too much backroom technical corporate monkeyshines to really pay attention to.

 

Actually quite the opposite: Unless more evidence is found and McLaren gets thrown out of the 08 championship by the FIA this story is all but over.

We had "spies" before, remember the case of the two Toyota technicians stealing from Ferrari? They only got suspended jail sentences and nothing ever happened from FIA side.

What you call guilty but zero punishment the FIA and to some degree the public calls lack of evidence.

It will take many months (if not years, remember the Senna and Patrese trials) to come to a verdict in the courts and by then world has long moved on. Point in case: How many on here have even heard about the sentencing of the two Toyota technicians? I found the story buried in a small article in a specialty magazine.

 

This will just blow over. In the meantime F better keep their noses clean because McL will be out for revenge. I'd bet they already have a lot of dirt and they're just waiting for the right moment. Anyway, it should be "back to racing."

 

Not really. Maybe in the minds of a few here on Fchat, but not many others. It's starting to die down.

 

suspended ??!!

the last I read was that they got a two year sentence and it was reported in the Australian national papers ..........

oops just checked, you're right :

http://autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070504/FREE/70501006/1002/FREE

just goes to show you can't believe what is reported (the Aust article was from the UK press so may have been before they appealed the sentence)

 

Only way to keep the championships from being tainted will be if Ferrari wins both of them.

 

+1, that really simplifies the whole problem!

Pete

 

Well, I dont think anyone has forgotten Fangios or Nuvolaris great drives. And they sure havnt forgotten the 1955 LeMans. Not many have forgotten that guy who pushed his car across the line at Indy. People might forget a lot, but some of us will be around to remind anyone who ever forgets. Mercedes cheated big time. I wont ever forget it. Pete Rose didnt cheat to anywhere near this extent and look what the baseball commission did.

Racing is great sport, and a lot of fun. When people cheat most of us dont like it. But a little cheating, spy shots, sneaky peeks, we expect that. But this goes way beyond. And you cant bend rules simply to put on a show. This show has to have some strong morality, or it will burn itself into the ground. There was already a lot of suggestion that F1 was becoming choreographed. Well, someone tell us how the FIA's decision helped put an end to the question. Now it looks like more people are in MB pockets.

 

What interests me about it all (and I'm still very much in the innocent until proven guilty camp), is how it's affected the relationship between Hamilton and McLAren/Ron Dennis - afterall he's been under their wing for some time now and just as he's on the cusp of making it all this blows up.

 

tbh Mr Watson is also speculating (like many on here)
unless he has read the documents, he has no real idea what was on them.

as for information on how the team operates, thats pretty easily obtained from any ex employee surely ?

 

I wouldn't hold my breath to find out, particularly on here where many have followed F1 only since MS started to win with Ferrari. Which is also why many were ready to defend MS through thick and thin after his parking incident at Monaco last year. They either forgot his previous record (like the 94 season) or simply didn't know about it. And those offenses were enough to actually ban him for several races or strip him of all his points in a later season, which isn't the case with Hamilton (about whom this thread is).

 

Well said.

The only folks who won't forget it are on this forum and will *forever* bring it up if Ferrari doesn't win the WDC and WCC this year - this will be their excuse as to why!

 

+1 for both Andreas and Mike.

Look at how so many people here begrudge Alonso his first WDC, according to them it was a gift handed to him by Ferrari. Last time I checked, everyone starts with a clean slate every season, you either get it right or you don't. End of story.

 

There is a question as to whether "everyone started with a clean slate" in 07 because McL's chief designer had 780 pages of Ferrari condidential documents before the season started. Some think this gave McL an unfair advantage. That is SF's position. McL's position is your position...namely, that Coughlan having all this information didn't matter.

So the supposed clean slate is a matter of opinion. Opinions are like bellybuttons, everyone has one. Some are "innies" and some are "outies". End of story.

 

There is no question, that this information gave McLaren an advantage, the question is whether that advantage was unfair or not:

It is somewhat ironic, that Todt complains about McLaren being the whistle blower on their (Ferrari's) illegal underbody (moving board issue). Would McLaren have been able to figure that out so fast? Probably not, but is it unfair that they caught Ferrari? Not really.

Now things like racing strategy etc is a different story, but then again it is hard to define how much of an unfair advantage that really gave to McLaren since races are very dynamic.

And what is somewhat lost in all of this: Shouldn't there be some blame on Ferrari or Todt for allowing this whole situation? Stepney's acts were criminal, but he was a loyal and worthy member of the team all those years. Something changed all that and the something is directly linked with the leadership in the team. Not trying to defend Stepney here, but Todt does sit in a glass house to some degree.

 

Actually McLaren's position is also the FIA's position.

But to address your original point, I was referring to the 2005 season about everyone starting with a clean sheet of paper.

 

Well, you said "everyone starts every season with a clean slate". That's what you wrote.

To err is human. To forgive devine.

 

Sorry for being unclear. I assumed people would recognize that I was discussing 2005 when you read both sentances.

 

Hamilton should make sure he beats his teammate this year. To beat a 2-time WC in his prime with the same equipment is hard enough. But to do that in your rookie year is absolutely amazing. He would ahieve something mega without the baggage of the spy scandal attached.