Found this on another board..... Briatore Wants McLaren Excluded By Michele Lostia and Biranit Goren (AutoSport) Saturday, August 4th 2007, 09:53 GMT Renault team chief Flavio Briatore launched a scathing and attack on McLaren, calling for their exclusion from the Formula One world championship. Briatore met with the Italian media yesterday at Hungary, and spared no words against McLaren and his long time nemesis Ron Dennis. In fact, the Italian has even suggested that McLaren may have had confidential information from within Ferrari long before their claim of March this year. "Last winter, I was saying how lucky McLaren are to be immediately that quick on Bridgestone tyres," Briatore began. "I'm a lucky guy, so it's OK for other people to be as well. "We, on the other hand, were in full crisis mode: Michelin's retirement turned out to be a disaster for Renault." Q: What did the McLarens have that your cars didn't? Briatore: "It's evident that they had the data on the weight distribution by Ferrari, who used Bridgestone tyres for almost ten years. That page in the famous stolen dossier would have been enough to save months of work and to find the solution immediately." Q: So you believe the transfer of information began before March, maybe in December? Briatore: "Look, we made the mistake of concentrating on wind tunnel work - it took us a month to set it up with the new tyre parameters. "Two more months were wasted, in fact also thanks to Ron Dennis: he was the one who protested us on the mass damper. He is not the immaculate saint he pretends to be on his statements." Q: So is the 2007 championship corrupted, then? Briatore: "Yes, and not just for us and Ferrari, but for everyone else. Here is a team that acquired an advantage illegally." Q: What should the punishment be? Briatore: "I'm not a judge. Just read the regulations: for intellectual property theft the punishment is exclusion." Q: Will you go to the appeal trial? Briatore: "Yes, obviously. In my opinion we are an injured party." Q: What do you think about Nigel Stepney and Mike Coughlan? Ron Dennis talked about the ex-Ferrari mechanic as some sort of a hero Briatore: "Hero? Some people, technicians and engineers, would thank their lucky star for working in F1. Coughlan and Stepney made tons of money - but that's wasn't enough for them, it seems. They should be banned." Q: Do you have a system to avoid such information theft at Renault? Briatore: "There's an alarm that alerts us when someone breaches out of his sector of action. But obviously you can't control everything. If someone goes to another team he will bring something with him. A page could be OK, but more than that is illegal. "I can give you an example: we couldn't understand why Honda were pitting whenever they felt like. I took two of their engineers, and I learned that they had a twin fuel tank..." Q: These things should be managed by the FIA "The ideal thing would be to have Formula One with rules decided by the teams, with the FIA's seal of approval. But it can't be done. The teams are never in agreement, and we are always held up by the minority, which us usually made up of the small teams." Q: In 2008 you will also have to use the Electronic Control Units (ECUs) made by McLaren and Microsoft (after they won the FIA tender for sole supplier) Briatore: "That remains to be seen. At the moment I'm writing a protest. We don't want them. First of all, because they don't work on our cars: the cars don't even start up. And second, why should we send some of our data to McLaren?"
Oh my ${DIETY}. A McLunken/Microsloth ECU? FIA really *is* trying to kill motorsports. Kinda adds another chapter to the "blue screen of death".
Golden! First he says that a single page could have given any team that was previously on Michelins a great advantage and that it would be cheating, then comments that actually to steal one page is OK... hmm...
In an updated version of that story, he makes a good point: "And it's an extremely serious thing that Coughlan hasn't yet been fired by McLaren." This is a guy who had access to 780 pages of documents and technically is still employed by McLaren, who know and admit that he had access to the documents.
as interesting as this statement buy Briatore is lets not lose sight of a few facts. i. of course he wants Mclaren excluded or fined points etc as this will make his own team look better. ii. iirc he is a candidate for Moseleys job when mad max retires - so he is going to be saying all sorts of things that might better his chances. oh and this whole one page nonsense - makes me wonder just what info he's seen himself
they should use whatever they want. F1 is supposed to be a showcase of the latest technology and helping advance things etc. im a little confused as to how limiting ecu technology to one company can help advance anything ?
i see. i still dont agree with any one team being involved though - be it McLaren or SF or any other.
+1 gHz Microshaft and McLunken? The Anti-Christ and Lucifer in unholy union? They won't be able to get the cars over 30mph without 2000HP !!!
or... perhaps... 4) McLaren wants to avoid a possible wrongful termination suit in case Coughlan is absolved of any wrongdoing, then turns around and sues McLaren for firing him based on unproven allegations 5) He has a contract with McLaren that does not allow for termination under these circumstances and McLaren wanted him out, and "suspending" was the way to do it
Don't forget this is the SAME Flavio who accused Ferrari of CHEATING numerous times. He was a hated and detested guy back then - now he's our best friend? HA! He accused Ferrari of cheating when Schumi parked it at Monaco. He accused them of cheating when they had a moving front wing. He also said the FIA was "in Ferraris pocket" and "its Ferrari, of course nothing will happen to them from the FIA". My point is that Briatore is an opportunist just like everyone else along the pit lane - Todt and Dennis included. Of course he's going to want to see one of the (very few) teams beating his team to be pushed back behind him. Of course he's going to think its fishy that another team can do better than his team (make the tires work better). When Flavio is making a case to keep his job to his bosses at Renault, of course he's going to want to be higher up the running order than he is. He's the most biased person in this whole affair, next to Todt and Dennis. I don't think any of their versions of the story could be considered the truth at all.
This is what Flavio Briatore said. " it's an extremely serious thing that Coughlan hasn't yet been fired by McLaren".
I am happy agree with you on the above , but I hate myself for agreeing with Briatore's view! I have done my best to avoid posting on any of these threads. From what I understand we have these facts: 1. Ferrari had/has a traitor(s) 2. A McLaren Team Member had Ferrari Docs, did not inform the FIA or Ferrari and was caught making copies. 3. McLaren asked for a rule clarification on a Ferrari part that only Ferrari "insiders" knew about. Based on 2 and 3, I have to agree with Briatore
Well, 3 was explained by Ron in that they asked for the clarification BEFORE Coughlan had the documents. It was a case where Stepney sold out his employer, and McLaren forced a re-examination of the rules, which then turned in their favor. I see no wrongdoing on McLaren's behalf there - I think if someone at Renault or McLaren told Ferrari that the McLaren was using a turbocharger, or auto brake bias control in the ECU, Ferrari would *absolutely* raise it as an issue with the FIA, and well they should. So given that we know that 3 had nothing to do with 2, it sort of puts us back to not having any proof of McLaren (the team) being involved other than just not firing Coughlan or outing him - which is a much lesser crime than using the info with knowledge and foresight. My .02 anyway.... just lets not forget how much we hate Briatore - dont make me dig up his comments from Monaco last year!
as mike said 2 and 3 arent related. 3 happened well before any docs changed hands and as for 1 and 2 as myself (and one or two others) have said on several other threads that the sporting code/rulebook says that each team is responsible for the actions of their staff members. this unfortunately means that ferrari is as guilt for stepneys actions as mclaren is for coughlins. this i think is why no penalites were incurred.
I agree each team is responsible for their staff members. I find it hard to believe that someone in the Ferrari team did not illegally tip off McL and someone in McL used that illegal information to hurt Ferrari. I will not comment further until more evidence is released
settles it for me, anything Ron says is gospel, a paragon of virtue and innocence ..... now how do I turn off the sarcasm mode
good good im sure someone in SF did - at present it looks like Stepney (though he is denyng it) if guilty he should be punished. We can also prove that someone in Mclaren received the info and didnt hand it back or destroy it does he deserve punishment - well unless he can provide a bl**dy good reason why he didnt hand it back/destroy it then yes he does. proving someone in Mclaren used the evidence for the benefit of the team though is a lot harder unless you can prove it then no punishment should be issued to the team for this. the problem comes when you hold teams responsible for their staff. this means that whether or not mclaren used the info they should still be punished because coughlin had it and didnt give it back/destroy it . but theres a snag. stepney also needs punishing, but ferrari are as responsible for his actions as mclaren are for coughlins. we then reach the ridiulous situation of ferrari being punished for the theft of their own info.
You are swaying me friend closer and closer to the commone sense. And I agree with you untill the line. "but thers a snag". and we have gone over and over this on so many threads. You cant punish a team or company for something that they had no control over and in no way could they have made any monetary or like gain by it. There is no way Ferrari could have gained or bennifited by the actions of one or more of their employees doing what they did. They did it to harm Ferrari by giving another team the advantage. On the other hand we have the McCheaters that saw the info but did not notify the proper authorities......Why? Because they used some of that infor to their advantage. No you wont find any modifications or like parts on the McCheaters cars. Like Flavio said......Just the weight distribution information of a bridgestone shod Ferrari was more than enough for them to make months of gains. Now where did Ferrari gain from that? They didnt and for anyone to say that they should be punished is ludicrous at best. The other thing I would like to mention is when the hearings come up in a few weeks time. Ferrari probably will not have to come up with any concrete evidence. How can you? The circumstantial evidence is there for all to see. The sudden gain by the McChearter team along with their unbelievable adaption to the new tires. Couple that with the fact that Ron found out about the flexi floors and the rear wing ect ect and you have to know that McCheater and the boys are guilty. Yes they recieved info and they are not guilty of that......They are guilty of not reporting it to the FIA or Ferrari........Why........Because they used the info.
