Agree, but while LH is fast, he SHOULD be playing number 2. He was hired as a number 2 and if the team asks him to let the number 1 passed then he should fncken do so! LH head is inflating ... too fast. Again why he should never have started in such a highly competitive car. Pete
As much as I personally think Alonso is a whiney little biatch, I think he is a guy who pretty much says what is on his mind. People LOVE to ASSume that the driver is only saying 10% of what he really thinks, therefore they guess at the 90% they think is missing, then present it to the world as fact. I think Alonso is a guy who says 95% of what he's really thinking. When they ask about him being at McLaren for his contract, I think he legitimately thinks he doesnt know. That's the 95% truth answer, it's not the 10% truth one that means he's secretly scrambling to get out of the team, that he hates Ron, McLaren and the FIA or whatever else. He did the same when asked about how he sees himself at McLaren vs. Hamilton. He said an English team will have preference for an English drive. I am sure he just feels thats a correct assesment, but the press and many on here spun it into the idea that he hates the team, hates his job, etc, etc. I think Alonso is just telling it like it is. I guess with the almost total lack of on-track action, thats why the off-track action gets so much attention. When the race is boring as hell, talking about the spy case, and Alonso to BMW, and Hamilton to Ferrari, and Kimi fired, and on and on - is just a way for them to pass the time because there ain't poop else going on.
What??!! Are you suggesting that there IS team order out there in the F1 World and at McLaren-Mercedes?! even with the ever so noble Ron Dennis in control? Is that even possible??!! I was so under the impression that it ONLY exist at Ferrari and with Michael Schumacher's team. Great, now all of the MS-haters has something and someone else to hate in this post-Schumacher era in F1. Was it in LH's contract that he IS suppose to be the #2 driver? Does this not ruin the nature of the sport and the natural balance of all things in the F1 World? Maybe LH should cry out to the public like RB, so everyone will hate FA even more and see the injustice that has been put before us. But wait, LH IS just as quick as FA as oppose to RB, who under most circumstances, is not even on the same stretch of the track as MS and his Ferrari heads into a turn.... this is all getting too complicate for me now. Thanks a lot Pete, for completely ruining F1 for me. Oh, one other thing. LH is actually leading in the points and was still 2 points ahead of FA before this past weekend. So technically, and according to how RD/McLaren's own policy is in the past, he is considered as the team leader as we are well passed the half way point of the season. As oppose to RB.....*LOL*
LOL . There is a difference between seasoned drivers and a new starter. Thus ofcourse LH should be the number 2, and everybody would accept that ... even Bernie. Whatever, you should still help your team mate out, and he should have let Alonso passed. LH is a prick IMO, way too big for his skill level ... only winning because of his team and now he is ****ting on his team. True pom! Pete
Perhaps LH will get stuck in a small town call Radiator Spring and learn from JMF about life and racing....wait, I am getting them confused with the Disney cartoon "Cars".
Two wrongs don't make a right. But that's besides the point. Bottom line is Alonshole and RD lied to F1 officials. Like Martha Stewart, they are going to make an example of such dastardly behavior. LH is a cheater. But Alonshole and RD are lying cheaters and that won't be tolerated.
excuse me !!?? you said all the cars are the same and the driver makes the difference, if that were the case then why didn't FA win while he was driving a Minardi !!!!!!?????? remember Damon Hill ? he got lucky to be in the right car at the right time, average driver in a superior car wins WDC, so if all cars are the SAME then how come Schumacher didn't win EVERY year You may wanna think before typing stupid statements like that
Agree. What is it with you guys? Is LH giving you fantastic blow jobs every night or something?. How can he do no wrong to all of you? Ron Dennis even publically and very clearly stated that LH started this whole mess and is fncking up the McLaren team ... but oh no, you all cannot see this and just love the little guy. Yes he can drive, but Ron is already wishing like mad he had not signed him to drive this year. McLaren have always raced as a team first ... LH isn't, which is pretty rich considering McLaren got him where he is. That is classless IMO! Pete
01 L.HAMILTON McL 02 F.ALONSO McL 03 K.RAIKKONEN Ferrari 04 F.MASSA Ferrari 05 N.HEIDFELD BMW 06 R.KUBICA BMW 07 G.FISICHELLA Renault 08 H.KOVALAINEN Renault 09 A.WURZ Williams 10 M.WEBBER Red Bull 11 D.COULTHARD Red Bull 12 J.TRULLI Toyota 13 N.ROSBERG Williams 14 R.SCHUMACHER Toyota apart from the also ran teams your theory doesn't hold up for the slow learners here : THE CAR IS THE DIFFERENTIATOR all the drivers are damn good, some ARE better than others obviously but FA in a Minardi never won a race let alone a WDC, RS won races in a Williams when they were GOOD, he's won NOTHING since going to Toyota, RBarrichello won races while at Ferrari, he's won NOTHING since going to Honda
Alonso's McLaren future uncertain Monday, 06, August, 2007, 12:30 Fernando Alonsos long-term future at McLaren has been thrown into question after speculation grew over the Hungarian Grand Prix weekend that he may look to leave the team at the end of the season. The double world champion is contracted to the Mercedes-powered squad until the end of the 2008 season but the future length of that partnership now seems uncertain after the Spaniards relationship with team-mate Lewis Hamilton reached new levels of tension at the weekend. Alonso was asked about his future with the team in an interview with the Spanish media following his fourth-place finish in Hungary. And when asked if it was possible to continue with the current situation at McLaren for the duration of his contract he replied: I dont know. The speculation about the 26-year-old led McLaren boss Ron Dennis to answer questions about the Spaniards future in his own post-race press briefing. However the Briton said such speculation is always inevitable and that his team would respect its contracts with both Alonso and Hamilton adding that he hoped both drivers would do the same. "There is an inevitability that these things are rumoured and discussed in other teams," he said. "We have two drivers who are contracted for several years into the future. "We will respect our part of that bargain and that part of the situation. We hope that the drivers respect theirs because that's what a contract is about." The rumours surrounding Alonsos McLaren future come after his former team Renaults engineering director Pat Symonds recently admitted that the world champion squad hoped he would one day return to them. The Spaniard spent five seasons as a test and then race driver with the Anglo-French squad, winning both of his world titles there and establishing himself as the successor to Michael Schumacher as Formula 1s pre-eminent driver. Symonds was asked in an interview in the August issue of F1 Racing magazine if Renault could or would take its former protégé back. "Would we? Yes. Could we? I hope so," Symonds responded. "He is a damn good driver though and wed happily have him back. "Id love to think that one day he might come back."
`Alonso`s days at McLaren are numbered` Monday 6th August 2007 Fantasy F1 - Win a trip to Monaco! It's not too late, point scoring starts at the Bahrain GP. Click here. Fernando Alonso is reportedly on the verge of quitting McLaren after a traumatic weekend at the Hungarian GP. Alonso's already fractious relationship with his new employers and team-mate Lewis Hamilton plumbed new depths at Budapest, with the Englishman revealing that the pair were no longer on speaking terms after stewards ruled that the World Champion had deliberately impeded the rookie. According to The Guardian, 'McLaren insiders expect Fernando Alonso to leave the team at the end of this season. 'Alonso, who was signed by McLaren at the end of 2005 at a cost of $25m a year, 16 months before he first raced for the team, has confided to friends and advisers that he has not received the priority treatment he expected as a double World Champion. 'Unless these problems are addressed he could negotiate a release from his contract, which runs until 2008, at the end of the year and possibly return to Renault or even take a sabbatical.' "Ron isn't about to change the way he runs his team after 25 years just to accommodate Alonso," a team colleague told the newspaper. "If he's going to win, then he'll have to beat whoever is his team-mate first." Alonso himself did nothing to dampen down the speculation by refusing to deny that he is contemplating leaving the team. "We'll see" was the extent of his response. Although the top end of the 2008 driver market was considered to be settled, events at Budapest have put the F1 rumour mill in full swing. The Daily Telegraph claims that Renault 'have suspended negotiations with Giancarlo Fisichella' to facilitate Alonso's return. Team boss Flavio Briatore, though, has denied that he's about to make an approach for Alonso. "I know nothing about that. We have never had any discussions about that," he insisted. "This is a McLaren problem, not mine."
There is a difference. This was LH refusing to follow team orders during qualifiying, not during the race. LH was asked to let FA by in the fuel burning phase, he did not. LH letting FA by would not have messed up LH's race in anyway. LH was wrong for that and pretty much admitted he made a mistake.(http://www.crash.net/news_view.asp?cid=1&id=152501) What Alonso did was wrong, but LH is not without fault either. The FIA should have stayed the hell out of it. LH was at fault and so was FA. Either let them work it out amongst themselves or penalise both of them. McLaren was still trying to give both thier drivers a fair chance regardless of who's in front in the points. There is a difference between that and what amounts to fixing races (MS and RB). During the race they are allowed to normally. Not the case with Ferrari, MS and RB. McLaren should be careful, at this point they could get into fighting each other and let Ferrari back into the title hunt. Rememeber 86 with Prost stealing the title from Williams?
VODAFONE McLAREN MERCEDES STATEMENT FROM THE HUNGARIAN GRAND PRIX - 5th August 2007 The process of managing two such exceptional talents as Fernando and Lewis is made more challenging by having a race winning car. Every effort was made yesterday by the team to maintain our policy of equality; however in the heat of the battle there are occasions when the competitive nature of drivers sees them deviate from the agreed procedures. During this intense and frenetic period of qualifying, decisions are necessarily made in seconds to enable the drivers and the team to position their cars on the track at the optimal moment. We agree with the stewards, that when the team decided to hold Fernando for 20 seconds there were four cars on the circuit. However, we do not understand the relevance of this observation as the team needed to estimate where all the remaining cars would be in the final minutes of the session. Similarly the team does not agree with the statement of the stewards that the 20 second hold caused Lewis to be impeded. Tensions were undeniably high and the problem at Fernandos first stop; the desire to enter a clear track and concerns expressed following the fitting of used tyres undoubtedly contributed to the delay in Fernandos ultimate departure. We do not believe that the findings of the stewards and the severe penalty imposed on the team are appropriate, and that our strenuous efforts to maintain the spirit of fair play and equality within the team have been misunderstood. We are, however, now only hours away from an important race and are focusing all our efforts on achieving the best possible result for the drivers.
Luis, welcome back, were you on vacation, hope you enjoyed your time off. Anyway, there is no need to jump in and defend McLaren and bash Ferrari on the team order topic so quickly, I was just poking fun at Pete and the situation. But since we are on the topic, I again disagree with you on this. IMO, qualifying is just as important as the race itself, especially in case of standing starts as in F1. Plus, on tracks that are extremly difficult to pass, such as Monaco and Hungry, starting position can be the differences, especiall when you and the next driver is only 2 points apart. Also, as this weekend and many others before has proven, in today's F1, following another can cause handling issues due to running in dirty air as oppose to be leading the race and running in clean air. As for fuel burning, it has proven itself to be an important part of the race weekend time and time again this season, to make light of either (qualifying and fuel burning) just to defend McLaren's team order as oppose to Ferrari's team order during the race is IMO, an optimistic POV with silver tinted glasses Also, we really don't know for sure what affect it would have on LH's car or race situation if he had allowed FA to go by, none of us can say for sure that it would have been harmless as none of us works at McLaren. I would imagine that if it was truely not a big deal, LH would have let FA by. IMO, LH must have felt that his points lead is at risk in order for him to chose to refuse, or something must have happened in the war room that we don't know about for this to happen. Remember, everything we are reading and hearing now can be coached and made with repairing McLaren's PR in mind. And if you think back to the qualifying and read RD and the team's body language, it would appear to me that they were more upset at what FA did than what LH was supposely to have done. I can't help but wonder if this whole "LH started this whole incident", is not just a way to salvage FA's reputation (Remember his out clause on his contract) and the situation. Perhaps it is LH being the ultimate team player by taking on the blame to save the team and FA from some serious public embarassment. There is something that I have been meaning to ask you, are you a F1 fan only or a Ferrari fan as well? You don't have to answer if you don't want to, I am just curious, that's all.
Mansell's view on this weekend: http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2007/08/07/mansell-criticizes-mclaren-team/ Anyone knows about bickering within a team, he would know. And I agree with him on how it should have been kept internal, except that the FA blocking was done right there on live TV, which makes it hard to hide. And I also agree with Mansell, PSK and Luis on that the drivers should be the ones to settle their issues either in private or on track, not FIA. Then again, knowing FA, he would not have been able to contain himself. The outspokeness of some of the drivers today is IMO, a much over-rated trait. They feed the tabloids and the blood thirsty fans, but adds zero benefit to the team at all.
What's blowing this situation out of proportion is that all the reports seem to be quoting either the British press -- who seem to feel that Alonso is giving up -- or the Spanish press -- who are certain that Hamilton is going to get shot at sunrise. I think it's safe to say that we just don't have anywhere near as many facts as speculations, at this point. But then, what else do we have to do for the next three weeks? Me; I'm going to drive my Ferrari. I might even wash it.
I wasn't on vacation, I tend to take breaks from here mainly because of the fact that so many people are Alonso bashers for no reason other that they don't like him and feel that everything he does is wrong. I don't see the need to try to debate with people that are irrational. (Not you, i respect your opinion, I did respond to your last post in the new thread). I knew you were mainly joking in your post, but i felt the need to have an intelligent debate with someone that knows what they are talking about. I wasn't trying to imply that qualifiying wasn't important, I was merely saying that letting FA by didn't seem like that huge a deal. LH's reaction speaks volumes about how big a threat to him Alonso is. It's seems, and this is just my view, that LH feels the team should be behind him because of his points lead and FA feels that the team should favor him because of the fact that he's a two time champ and deserves that sort of stature in the team but McLaren is staying neutral which is irritating both of them. Your theory about LH taking one for the team so Alonso can save face doesn't explain the radio exchange between RD and LH. I think LH is feeling the pressure, I think Alonso has closed the gap to him speedwise and LH knows it. I also don't think LH can run with FA in bad conditions, one more wet race and Alonso can be ahead of LH in the points. We don't know for sure what sort of effect LH letting FA by would have had on LH's race but that's why we should have been allowed to find out without the FIA stepping in. If FA would have been let by and he did his fast lap and set his time then LH would have had the opportunity to respond to that lap. I frankly think LH is scared. LH is starting to show cracks under pressure. You don't have to be a master strategist to conclude that LH simply didn't want to do anything that might jeopardize his race and aide Alonso's whether the team told him to do it or not. This is actually the opposite of being a team player. RD's reaction was a result of losing control of the situation. One must rememeber that LH might have been trained and groomed for this but he is still young and a bit immature. This showed during this incident. I think Pete might be on the right track, LH is starting to let the fast sucess get to his head. To answer your question, I love the Ferrari team, I've never been a fan of Schumacher however, and I hated the way they ran the team when he was with them. In the late 80's and early 90's I always rooted for them to win, even when they stunk. When the team signed MS and dumped Alesi and Berger, just as the car was starting to come around, I started to sour on them. The MS years made these feelings worse. I found myself rooting against them simply because they made the races so damned boring. I still feel residual bad feelings towards them but I'm getting over that. I think the sporting situation is better with them now and i still hope they can do well. I was hoping that Kimi would be champ this year. I'm a fan of Kimi but I don't really like Massa much. He just seems to still be MS's lackey. He's a typical test driver, fast, as long as he doesn't have to race anyone, he lacks the certain something that the other top drivers seem to have. If Kimi had gotten the hang of the car a bit faster he'd be right there in the points fight. FA or LH in the second Ferrari would probably make me like the team even more.
Totally agree, I think he was even said that at one point. If he moved to Ferrari he couldn't team with Kimi, because Kimi wouldn't roll over for Alonso. He couldn't team with Felipe because of the tension between the two.
