Any 360 owners or techs can help me?

Hi guys,
Im working at the local mb and bimmer service/collision place this summer and They just got in a 2001 360 modena f1, its in originally for a novitech upgrade, well the man also asked for the car to be checked out. (it was brought in on flatbed) So we figured out the car is starting most times (not all) and when its driving, and you go over a bump, the car sometimes shuts OFF! can anyone explain to me whats going on? what can be done so it doesnt need to go to the local factory authorized dealer (worst case scenario)

 

Not sure there is sufficient detail to help with this. To my knowledge it isn't a common problem. Does it just die and everything else appears normal: power on, in gear, ??? Does it sputter or just die and you have redical compression braking?

It it could be electrical, did you check the battery to see if it was shorting when you go over a bump?

Details required to provide help.

 

It is most likely a 99% chance it is electrical.. it just dies out. The car has been babied. But it has been babied by "the wrong guy" When we test drove the car it died 4 times in an area of 5 miles. bump, sputter once, Dead. thats how it went. I betcha it would be a battery but i would love to get you opinion. Reason I say its a battery problem because this happened to my dad's 2002 bentley arnage r that he recently sold, it died at red lights due to low voltage even when on (the dealer said it was a $4000 voltage regulator) well we went down to the local murrays and replaced the factory battery with a interstate battery and boom, everything worked theron, lights were brighter, brightness of console lettering was brighter etc......

 

yeah check the battery connection. I had a stereo installed on my old m3 and forgot to tighten the battery cable. whenever i hit a bump it would either completely die or all the lights would flash.

 

When the car 'dies' Vik, are there any dash lights?? Is there still power there?? How do you get the car restarted when it 'dies' in the ass?

 

when we went on the 5 mile test ride, we were able to start it up all 4 times again, but the owner claims that once it wasnt able to start back up.

Power was still there, and no dash lights were illuminated saying it needs some "assistance"

 

Hmmmmmmm...........without taking a look at the car in person (obviously ) and taking a wild stab in the dark, I would say it sounds like it could be a grounding issue IMO. Check battery ground/connections 1st Vik, then go from there mate.

 

will do, I have the day off today but ill get on it tomorow.

BTW anybody can tell me where the battery is for a 360 modena and how to access it?

 

Your first post sounded like the service tech was working on the car and you were helping. Now it sounds like you're working on the car. What is the service shop doing letting a 14-15 year old work on a customer car by themselves? Did you tell them "I know 360's" or something then come here to ask for help?

If you don't even know where the battery is, I think you should leave the car alone. You can cause unintentional damage poking around.

 

I think it is all self aggrandizing. Making it seem like he has a bigger part in the process than he really has.

 

Agree Yin. Best leave it to the mechanic Vik. Or at least run this info I posted, past him. Then both of you have a look and try work it out. I am not saying you dont know what you are doing on your own, you probably are half handy, but the fact remains you are not a mechanic so best leave it to him. I wouldnt like the thought of a 14yr old working on my Ferrari. Nothing against you Vik. I am sure you know what I mean by leaving it to the pro to look at. You can be his trusty T.A and hand him spanners!

 

Please keep in mind that when the car looses battery power (battery disconnected or dies), you need to run the car through the relearn process after the battery power is restored. This involves starting with a cold engine, A/C off, Heat off, start it up without touching anything (no reving of the engine) and let it idle undisturbed for 15 minutes as the ECU relearns the car's parameters. I'm not sure how big an issue this is on the 360, but the 348s were pretty sensitive to it and could stall when driven (first hand experience).

Also, you should check for tightness of electrical connections at the power connections behind the driver seat as well. The battery harness, for example, runs from the front passenger footwell where the battery is to a connector under the driver side rear shelf panel. As a DIY guy, I like to look for anything that looks loose or is poorly supported in this area as well as in the engine bay. I was told in the past by a dealer that the aluminum chassis cars (360, etc) are particularly susceptible to ground wires working loose because they are bolted to the aluminum. Their recommendation to me at the time was to retorque the key grounding points. I let them do this part rathering than searching them out myself, so I can't be more specific as to which ones to focus on.

So, part of what I am passing on is from experience, but part is from 'what I've been told'. Hopefully there isn't a wild goose chase in the mix


Lou

 

Come on guys, not too rough. Some of what you say may be true and Vik may be young but he obviously loves cars. He has stepped up to be a member and he filled out his profile. He didn't mascarade as someone he isn't.

Vik, they are right. Even a minor mistake can result in a very expensive repair. Some of the electronics are extremely delicate and do poorly with voltage spikes like what can be caused by an accidental battery grounding. At least one member hear blew out his instrument cluster, OOPS.

As for accessing the battery, there are a bunch of threads on that subject. Many complete with pictures.

Before you try any of these repairs I sugest you get a copy of the shop manual and read up. Have you read the owners manual yet? If not, there is a lot of info there too. Master that and you will know more than 60% of the guys here. Be sure to get permission from the rents before you start taking things apart.

 

I was asked to help on the the car with the service tech (which is doing most of the work, I just help him with your awnsers that are passed on to him and i then at the end of the day get to go on a more smoother test ride), due to them knowing before that I helped them with a starting problem on a 355 last summer. (it was a battery that needed to replaced) I believe I know where the battery is but isnt it behind the drivers seat or in the passenger footwell?

 

oh got it that should be it, so basiclly I should let it run for 15 minutes once the grounding is retightened and a new battery (optima redtop prefferably?) is put in so the ecu should remap?

 

Power on / startup is more complicated than that. Look at the manual to be sure you got it right.

There are a bunch of recent threads on battery selection too. Do a quick search and you will find the answer.

 

did it and I found an interstate battery is the best for the owners driving style. But is there a cutoff switch somewhere? and is there a service trick used in order to find out problems on 360's. we have a diagnostic scanner but us being a benz/bimmer type place we actually have highline exotics in the system but the onlyone not in there is ferrari.

 

Take it to a Ferrari dealer before you end up making a $10K mistake by blowing out the gauge cluster or something. If it's flashing the "needs assistance" light, then you are best off taking it to a dealer who can put it on an SD3 and download the data to see what exactly is the matter.

As far as the battery, if the battery is able to crank the starter, then most likely it's fine.

Frankly, it sounds like you guys are in over your heads and don't have the proper equipment to solve the problem. What if you "think you fixed the issue" and send the owner back out on the road - only to have them stall in the fast lane going 90 MPH? What then? If the car is rear ended and bursts into flames, then what?

If the car is an F1, it could shutting down for any number of reasons. Worn clutch, leak in the F1 system, burning out pump, etc. Could be some fault in the ignition system - anything from a sensor to the internal ring coming loose on the flywheel - who knows. The point is, the car doesn't shut down just for the heck of it. It's telling you something isn't right and the answer isn't likely to be found between a 14 year old with a computer and a MB tech without an SD3.

My post may come across as a bit harsh, but you aren't dealing with a Honda Accord. The 360 uses a lot of F1 racing technology and some of it is very difficult to deal with short of having either an SD3 or ST5.

This all sort of reminds me of the guy who took his Ferrari to Costco because the dealer wanted too much to install new tires. I can't remember the model, but it was some very old car. Like a 275 or something. If I recall the story correctly, the dealer wanted an arm and a leg to mount new tires. So the guy turned the car over to Costco. All that was fine, but the 20 year flunky doing the job couldn't get the car in gear and ended up breaking a tooth off on the gear box or something and causing a huge problem. I think it ended up costing him $15k or $20K by the time everything was said and done, in order to source out a replacement gear box, etc.

Another story I recall was the time this guy had a TR (I think) and didn't want to pay Ferrari for some oil hose. So they decided they could make it out of off the shelf stuff. I don't remember the details of the story, but they built the whole thing for less than what Ferrari wanted. That part was fine, but during the first test drive, it exploded and sprayed oil all over the place - that part wasn't fine. I think in the end, the customer ended up having to pay to to fix the oil problems and also he ended up having to buy the part from Ferrari.

Anyway, keep us posted on how all this turns out!

Ray

 

Ray, the car has NO "needs assistance" lights on or any of those lights of any sort. I will passit on to the techs that it could be the f1 system, but it could be that the car could be stalling on a bump because he was driving it "wrong" in too high of a gear. so, we should check the grounding, and the f1 system, but the thing is that the owner didnt want to take it to a ferrari dealer due to them charging more, I understand they would know what they are doing but the shop I am working on has a 360/ f430 in every week but not for this type of problem, (thats whats stumping us) we have 3 lambos in the back, and several sl65's and 997 turbos and 997 gt3rs's in the service bay. We are a full service shop and modmaki would know because he services his ferrari's there occasionally. Thank you for your imput but actually we could obtain a SD3 very easily.
Thanks,
Vic

 

Do you have any idea what a SD3 costs?? TWENTY-EIGHT THOUSAND BUCKS.

 

Vik, I cut you a break but Ray is right. The questions say that you are in over your head on this one. It is time to buck it up and take the care to a experienced Ferrari mechanic. It doesn't have to be a dealer, it can be a top notch independant, but you need professional help.

FYI: just because there aren't any lights doesn't mean that there isn't a code that the SD3 can read.

 

I understand, I did not mean that we could just buy one, we have people that we know that we can take it to.



And BTW another problem, this should be easier to fix. From what I remember the 360 alarm had a chirp when you pushed the button, the one we have right now doesnt make a chirp sound. How can we make it so it makes a chirp sound (owner requested it).

 

Are you really listening to us? Why would you think that a Ferrari alarm problem would be "easier to fix"? Unless it is as simple as the audio transducer being bad or disconnected (which you shouldn't even have to ask us about if you or the service tech knew the simplest things to check), then the alarm/immobilizer ECU is interconnected with the engine ECU, which starts getting messy.

If we tell you how to fix the "chirp" sound, will you tell us how to fix the "hollow" sound?

 

Yes I am listening to you. I find that very offensive when you say that about the hollow sound. I ask you for a simple question. I understand it should be left to the dealer to do but I thought to make the chirp sound it is a owners preference that is done by going through the console thing.

 

I'm sorry you're offended, but your track record on this board is to ignore good advice and persist in doing what you started and getting into a lot of trouble. I.e., what goes in one ear, goes out the other.

In this particular case, you're discounting numerous people telling you to leave it alone. On top of that you now mention a new fault, which quite possibly could be related and so should have been mentioned before. I.e. there is an alarm problem at the same time that the car shuts itself down. Hint: did you read the name of the ECU above - IMMOBILIZER?