PETER WINDSOR ON TOYOTA F1 TEAM

Renault make city cars and do very well in F1 making the complete car, why can't Toyota?.

If they really committed themself to Germany for that weak reason ... well no wonder they are not winning.
Pete

 

Hopefully they don't buy Williams. The last thing we need is another privateer racing group with a great history being sold to a company only concerned with marketing and making more money (i.e. McLaren and to a lesser extent Sauber since they weren't as successful except at LeMans).

 

It's funny, I was just thinking two days ago: whatever became of Brabham, Lotus, Tyrrell...... I know they are all gone, but still, they were all winners at one time, now gone, and for what reason ? Oh yeah..

 

money Brabham and Lotus after they were sold off to investors without enough money. Tyrrell to BAR where they did nothing...

 

I dont see what Toyota gets out of the whole F-1 thing? it is a ton of Cash they have been spending... whats the deal?

I think they should move the operation to England, then they will be able to get better help... Cologne is a nice town, but its not like London!

 

Perhaps Toyota wants to be all things to all people.

Toyota is in NASCAR to sell the Tundra.

http://autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070214/FREE/70212013&SearchID=73288376562104

Renault bought the Benetton team.

 

OK Peter, you can now remove your nose.
Fact is, if you dont have your facility where everyone else has it (thus the connections, labor, and suppliers) you are already behind.

 

Surely you are aware that Renault has a long history in F1 racing, and has won many titles already as an engine supplier as well. They also did not start a team from scratch this time around, they took over the Bennetton team. Why can't they do what Toyota did, be the number one auto giant of the world and start their own F1 team, instead of buying out Bennetton?

 

Does anyone know for sure that they have a winning car at the beginning of every season? There are teams that knows they are behind during winter testing, should they just fold up their tents and go home for the season? McLaren-Mercedes has not won a title for 7 years and Williams for 10, why don't they just quit and go home? By your logic, Ferrari-Malboro also spend tons of cash in 2005, and they came in 3rd that year, great accomplishment right? I am sure JT, RB and MS didn't think so.

Anyone that know F1 will tell you that the dollar amount spend does not equal to success gained. A big check can help and is a great start but it is not a guarantee, having the right people is the foundation that the big budget can build on. Toyota is still very young in F1, they don't have the history or the glitz like the more established teams. As a young engineer, unless you are Japanese, working for Toyota's F1 team is probably not going to be on the top of the list. Their future is either find a brillant engineers and develop him/her on their own or find the young, up and coming engineers from the other well established teams, who are itching to prove themself, which in either case, is easier say then done.

 

Yes I am ofcourse aware.

But we need to remember its the people who have the knowledge not the cars or buildings ... thus why can't Toyota hire the right people? Renault did buy buying a team, but that is only one way of achieving the right people.
Pete

 

When Renault took over Bennetton, they took on their whole staff as well. The core people are still there today and they are the ones with connections, know how's and has the ability to recruit as oppose to Toyota, who had to start from scratch. The team boss they have had, either they have zero F1 experiences or they are has beens. I am sure that Toyota is not on the top of any one engineers' wish list, maybe unless you are Japanese. This is no different than how colleges recruits their football or basketball players from high schol here in the States, the big name schools with the big name head coachs are more likely to get the players that they want the most. This is sort of like the chicken or the egg thing, Toyota will not be able to out hire any of the big fives of F1 (Ferrari, McLaren, BMW, Renault and Williams) right now until they turn the corner and establishes themself as a major team. But if they can't out hire any of these teams, how are they suppose to gain the experience and improve quickly? They can only do that with time and some luck. Even Ferrari, the flag ship of F1, took 21 years(?) to turn things around and if you consider the hiring of Jean Todt, Ross Brawn and Rory Barns as the start of their recent success, it still took them 4 years to win a title. And as mentioned before, it took McLaren 7 years to be leading in the championship fight again as Williams is still trying to find its way back to the top, even with the history and the people it has. As for BMW or Renault and even Honda, they all started as engine supplier to gain valuable knowledge and established connections first before buying out another existing team. Nobody on the F1 grid right now had to start from scratch like Toyota did.

 

Agree Anthony, and realise that BUT it is a pretty big carrot for an engineer, ie. be the one to turn Toyota around.

Gee if you could succeed there, you could do anything anywhere!!!
Pete

 

IMHO, the easier way for Toyota to success in F1 quickly is that they need to start from the top and they can do that by trying to lure away the #2 or #3 guy from one of the top 5's to be their team boss. Someone like Ross Brawn (I hope he come back to Ferrari next season), not Stepney, from Ferrari, Patrick Head or Sam Michael from Williams or Whitmarsh(?), not Counghlan, from McLaren or Pat Simmons from Renault etc. Again, easier say then done here, but with the right motivation and package, such as total control of the team, it is not impossible that someone high up in the Big 5 will be willing to take on the challenge just to prove that they are just that good. Once they have a team boss with credibility, experience and is truely an insider to today's F1 world, with the budget they have, they can start to challenge the other top teams when it comes to hiring the right people, then they will be able to compete. The hard way would be what they are doing right now, re-cycling the left over people from the Big 5s and hope that they find a diamond in the rough within their own system.

IIRC, we didn't agree on the involvement of major auto manufactures in F1 in the past, unless you have changed your view on this recently, you were against it. Anyway, I am still for it as I think it is necessary to have teams that people can identify with, this can only help in drawing in more fans and sponsors worldwide.

 

Look at Honda, they had a great Technical Director Geoff Willis (From Williams) and when things weren't perfect at the beginning of the 06 season they demoted him, knowing he would leave. Then they bring in the guy from Japan that has no clue on F1. Samething with Toyota and Mike Gascoyne, as soon as they run into some trouble they got rid of him, even though they had bought him out of his Bennetton contract. I think both Manufacturers will never win a WCC no longer how long it takes, the opposite of BMW who seems to know what they are doing.

 

Not sure if I agree with you on that, because I don't know if I would rank Geoff Willis and Mike Gascoyne that high up as team boss or technical directors. IMO, they both had the opportunities and chances to prove that they were not just riding the coat tails of their superiors at Williams and Bennetton. If they are really that good, I would imagine that any one of the top teams would have snatched them back up the minute they were released by their teams. We will see what Gascoyne can do with the Spyker team.

BMW's situation is a little closer to Honda, but IMO, still differs greatly as they were with Williams, a team that was competitive at least up until 2004, as oppose to BAR, the team that Honda eventually bought out, has relaitively little success & experiences when compared to Williams. Mario Thiessen (?) is not a new to F1, and there is little doubt that he knows what he is doing in F1. IMO, Ford/Jaguar's situation was a better comparison to Honda, and if they had gotten Andrian Newy from McLaren, they just may still be in F1 today, but we all know how that whole fiasco went.

I think both Honda and Toyota are still searching for their identity, and with the right team boss, they can do just that. Much the same way that a football or basketball team will take on the identity of their head coach, and by having the right leadership, they too can be successful with the right combination. With the right people at the helm and a little luck, Toyota and Honda has the potential to be one of the top F1 teams, much the same as any of the Top 5s of today can easily fall from grace just as quickly, for example, look at how long it took McLaren-Mercedes to recover from the disaster MP4-19(?) in '04(?) and that's with RD and Adrain Newy at the helm of the team during that time.

 

Anthony C. I agree about the Gascoyne situation not necessarily being top flight. However, when Willis was at BMW Williams after Newey had already for McLaren he did a fine job on the Williams. I think he did a decent job at Honda, and they have suffered as a consequence of his departure and the Wind Tunnel Fiasco. By the way what ever happened to Gavin Fisher who used to work as a partner to Geoff Willis at Williams?

 

What a load of BS

Toyota pumped a **** load of money in advertising in F1Racing mag, P Windsor was invited to drive their F1 car in France last year if i`am correct ,and other stuff like that.

More important:
Ever heard of Toyota-One Aim mag ? Good ! It`s published by Haymarket same company that has F1 racing.

One hand washes the other............