360 - can i afford it?

If you have to ask this question YOU PROBABLY CANT afford one. I agree with Ray. These are expensive toys that are not cheap to insure and maintain.

 

The 355 is a very good car. In some ways, it's more fun to drive than the 360. The 355 is small, easy to toss around and nearly as fast as the 360. The shifter on the 355 makes a nicer noise from 2nd to 3rd than my 360 does and the sound of a 355 with a tubi sounds nearly like a formula 1 car going through a tunnel. The 360 doesn't have that same high pitched scream.

I've actually given at least some thought to selling my 360 and getting a 355 again to play with. If it came down to 355 or no Ferrari, I would jump at a 355. The 355 is a great car. It does require a little more work to keep up than the 360 does, but it's still a fine Ferrari that you can enjoy every day. The 360 is a stronger car and more durable over all, but again, the 355 is still a really great car to own/drive.

Ray

 

what's that saying? "Ferraris, call girls, and airplanes... not a poor man's hobby". Or something to that effect.

hehe

Ray

 

This is silly. I doubt there are very few people who don't ask the question. It doesn't matter what kind of car or item it is. Also with that type of response it isn't painting a very nice image of the community. I would drop $4000 on a new notebook; to some this seems outrageous. It is all relative and a matter of what is important to you.

 

IMHO you can't look at it that way. The 355 and 360 are different types of cars. I would also wager this holds true for any of Ferrari's models (cept maybe 360 vs. 430?). While they both wear the prancing horse of that which is Ferrari, they both have unique qualities that seperate them. Some are more distinct than others. Some will say the interior on the 355 sucks or the sound of a 360 sucks. All these things are very subjective and ultimately up to you to decide what you like in YOUR Ferrari. The more you get into this hobbie ultimately the more informed you will be.

I guess it depends on what a lot of money is. Entry point for late model 355 is 65 - 75. For a 360 (I don't follow as closely) you are looking at 100 (let's not split hairs). That is almost 40K. So you now have 40K in your "Ferrari Rainy Day Fund" (or FRDF(tm)). If 40K is not a lot and you can actually do 100, then based on that theory you should be able to swing 140K (100 for a car and 40 for FRDF), and you have the answer to affordability.

If down the road you don't like whatever it is you buy, chances are that in a year or two very little is going to happen with the price. You will likely get close to what you paid no matter what you decide on. Just take care of it and don't let things slide.

(DISCLAIMER: I was using the price points to make a point, so let's not split hairs over price)

.m

 

Thanks for sharing. If you haven't seen it yet, there was an article in the NYTimes talking about exactly what you described:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/05/technology/05rich.html?ei=5070&en=51bccf5b525f5faf&ex=1187150400&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1187038284-m8iRckBUQ33GL93Z+KfZTg

 

that about sums up CA all right "$10M ain't making it any more".

Ray

 

That's incredible. And I thought NYC was bad!

 

I think the original poster shouldn't have just asked the quetion....but gave the group some info. The reality is, with the performance of the M3 and Carrera....and even the aged NSX (I know of a 2004 for less than $59k) what you need to do is spill the beans on your situation, and values.

I got to the point where I can retire at my present lifestyle and not screw it up by getting over my head. I increase my lifestyle as I can and not jeopardize quitting work.


I remember the day I bought my 360 Spider, my buddy showed me a four-plex I could buy for the same $$$. Had I done what he suggested, I year later I could have gotten the car free.

So do you:

1- Make money and have job security?

2- Want a family?

3- Have a house? (less of an issue in this market)

4- Have a retirement plan? Or debt?

5- Live for the moment? There's nothing wrong with that as long as you accept the downside and end up in a crappy apartment in retirement.

6- Some people fall in love with F-cars and it really happens. Others get bored when the newness wears off.

7- Be careful on "buying the car right". More first time buyers do the opposite because they don't have the experience. I did...and it was a $30,000 lesson. But I could chaulk it up to lesson learned.

But it is a short ride. And you can say what you want about heaven after you die and all that. But dude...when it's done...it's done.

 

Life is short Go for it. Yes it is expensive . A battery change is 450.00. You have to worry about parking it all the time. It will bottom out on driveways.But when your
driving there is nothing like it. Do it

 

So true. What sucks is I can't park my cars at home so I can't go out and just fiddle like I did when I was 20 and had BMW 2002.

You're not getting married, but it costs a lot of money, even when you get out (I'd never sell my own car).

There's a book called "100 things to do before you die". Has the Mile High Club...all that stuff. If you can swing it....even for a year...do it.....

 

WHATTTTTTTT!!!!!!! GET F*CKED!! WOW!!!! AWESOME!!!

Boys, I am a really positive person and I do like to think big, but I still cant fathom how much hard work/right place at right time or just sheer plain old luck, it would take to make/earn $300K and $14M per month respectively!! Absolutely incredible if you ask me!!

HUGE pat on the back for you Ray and the guys out there doing this!! I set goals in life, but honestly, nothing as crazy as $300K+ per month, because for myself personally, it will just not happen. As much as I would love to think so, I just do not see it happening anytime soon.......ever.

Perhaps in the future, as I am still a young pup and who knows what the future will hold for me. I 'cracked' my 1st $mill this year at 27yrs old, so I am well on my way to 'do well' in life. But.......these figures are mind numbing.
Thanks for sharing your experiences again guys.

 

Agree 110%!! You only live once boys..........so live it up!!

 

Look at it from a mathematical standpoint, then it's easier. If you can figure out something where you can charge someone $19.95 a month, that's $1 per day (M-F). Then just get 1000 people to sign up. Then you are making $1K per day. Look at it like this, there are 50 states out there, so 1000 people breaks down to 20 people per state. Next time you fly over the US in a plane, look down and see how big the world is. It's not very difficult to get 20 people per state to buy something from you - if you provide something of interest.

Now let's say instead of 20 people per state, you are able to get 200 people per state. Still, a very tiny number of people per state. 200x50 is 10,000. If they are all paying you $19.95 per month, then that's $1 per day times 10K people or 10K per day. 250 days in the year, so 250x$10,000 is $2.5M a year.

$19.95 isn't that much money. If you provide something really worthwhile, people will pay $49.95, which is $2.50 per day. So, if you have 10,000 people, all paying you $2.5 per day, then that's $25,000 per day.

So, it's just a matter of putting your thinking cap on.

A good friend of mine just told me about his friend who started a newsletter for doctors. He started it maybe 8 or 9 years ago and is now making $10M per year. I believe he charges $250 a year for the subscription (not much to a doctor's office) and has around 40,000 doctors (that's 800 per state) subscribing.

Math... it's your friend.



Ray

 

I know the guys running World of Warcraft, and other monthly subcription based video games have to be doing quite well then.

 

Sorry but I have to call this one. Maybe you know this guy but if you do, he is on the Forbes list and is one of the richest guys in the country. As Ray said, math is your friend. 14k units x $220k national average price (approximately) = $3.1 Billion market value. Even with a minimum 30% down he has a net worth > $1B.

Back on subject -- Ray is right. It isn't that hard to get to real numbers but you can't do it working for others. There is a serious limit doing that and the air gets pretty thing over $250k/yr.

Your risk is that you are limiting yourself with your mindset. You need to not worry about what sounds real and just make it happen. Over time it will surprise you.

 

14K units is a lot.

I know one of the guys my Dad went to school (back in the 40's) with owns a lot of apartments, but I'm not sure how many... Hang on.

Okay, I just called my Dad and he said he thought his friend owned around 500 units or so - last time he checked (which was about 6 years ago). Although I just searched google and the one he owns in town has nearly 80 units in just that one. So maybe he owns more.. who knows.

Say 500... then he's probably making ~$500K or $750K a month, if you figure the average net is around $1500 or so. I think he actually lives near where I own a home. Most likely all his apartment complexes are paid for also, since I believe he bought them many years ago. As my Dad tells the story, this guy (I won't use his name) married a real sharp gal out of college (I think?) and she prompted him to start buying apartment complexes at a very young age. Once they started buying them, they took the money from one and used it to buy the next, etc. My Dad said if he had not met her, he probably never would have ended up owning so many (I think he may have inherited the first one - but not sure). Anyway, she sort of kept a fire under his butt in the early days. I could have some of the story wrong, but I imagine he makes quite a nice living now from the rental income.

The big problem to making money is freeing yourself from another mathematical problem in business - and that's namely the number of hours in the year. If you do something that requires your individual time for each thing - such as drawing plans for a house, or showing up to cut the grass or (as I used to do), fix computers for a living, you quickly realize you have a serious problem on your hands. If you charge $100/hr, then you are tied to the hours in the day. At 8 hours a day, 250 days a year, you are dealing with approximately 2000 hours. So, if you charge $100 per hour for your services, then you top out at $200K/year. You can't create more hours and there is a limit to what people will pay "per hour". In the final days of my consulting business, I simply raised my rates until only my largest clients could afford it. In the end, I was charging between $125 and $250/hour (depending on the job), but only working a few hours a day. I also started charging "by the job", instead of just a flat hourly thing. The other problem is you can't really work 8 hours solid, since some time is needed to drive around to clients, etc.

In fact, at around 22 years of age, I realized I had just this problem. One day, after I had been a computer consultant for maybe 6 months, I decided to see how much I could make if I was able to book clients every day, and actually work 8 full billable hours (which I couldn't - 3 or 4 hours per day was more the norm). So, at the time, I was charging $40.00 per hour and realized that at 2000 hours per year, I could only make $80K. This was back in 1988, but even then, I could see this was not the path to becoming a millionaire or buying a Ferrari. It was only later that I hit on a better solution (see below), after one of my clients explained a better way to make money (as well as the problem with billing by the hour).

The solution is that you have to either sell a product, which can be mass produced, or you have to sell some sort of product/service (such as a newsletter) where you aren't tied to the "per hour" thing. As one of my previous clients told me "do something once and sell it many times". Golden advice! A newsletter is the classic example of that. You write one newsletter each month and then print it up and mail it. Selling it to 10 people or 1,000 or 10,000 people is only a matter of more stamps (or these days, more bandwidth) and requires no more of your time. The growth of the business isn't tied to your time, so you have leverage when it comes to expansion. When I started my first newsletter business, I ran it as a second business and grew it to 1500 members. It only took about 10 hours a month of my time, yet made nearly as much as I was making in my computer consulting business working a full client load.

People like Doctors, Lawyers, Dentists, Consultants, etc. are all tied into that "per hour" thing and usually will never be able to make the really big money (as mentioned, north of about $250K a year) - simply because there aren't enough hours in the day. If you work 8 hours a day (2000 hours a year) and want to make $2M a year, what are you going to do? Charge $1000/hr?

This is also why the stock market went crazy in the dot com days. Suddenly people realized that a company with 10 computers and a DS3 connection could make millions and millions of dollars - and more importantly, that the expansion of the company was almost unlimited. There didn't need to be a huge staff, no locations/offices all over the USA, no trucks to take products to people, etc. Not even any inventory (in the most pure internet business). Just one problem, it had to also be built on a sound business model (i.e. there had to be a demand in the market place for what you were selling), which in many cases it wasn't.

Ray

 

Thanks Ray. I TOTALLY understand this concept and way of thinking, trust me. That is the easy part!! I know what you are saying, but the hard part is finding something to 'sell' monthly to the masses to generate this huge income. Seems so simple.........but its not!!

 

I am not sure if it is the same guy. I looked up the person and he is not on there. He is very private and not very published.

You are totally correct about mindset. The problem most people have become extremely wealthy when not born into it, is getting rid of the belief patterns. My father's father worked for the US Post Office, he got a job after going to school, and then he always told me, go to school and get a job, how else are you going to pay your bills. Then the comfort level sits in, a lot of wishing takes place, and your married and your kids college loans are gonna come due soon since they are graduating soon and you tell them "Wow son! we're so proud of you for that great job you got."

This is not how milliaires are made, unless the school we are talking about is Harvard Law or Wharton B school etc. and Jimmy has a i-bank job lined up making 250k a year and he plans on starting his own hedge fund after 5 years. Different ball game; I'm talking about the guys like me that went to college to find out what they DONT want to do, enjoyed the 4.5 years as much of they can, and sweaked by with a 2.5-3.0 and are more interested in making millions doing what they love rather than taking the GMATS.

 

Not to mention most people that pay to play those games are usually addicted by that time and have been subscribed for over a year. They are definitely making a killing.

Not to mention they are worldwide.

 

Its funny how you put this in context since I always thought like this. I always thought of ways to make money through forming companies and what not. When i went into college in '99 the dot come craze was reaching its peak. Ironically, I went to school for information systems hoping to become a SAP or comparable consultant. As time went on I realzied fiannce and real estate was my passion. When I was 23 I convinced a civil engineer and a former UBS Executive to wire me 250k cash to buy a foreclosure property. After 3 weeks and me writing a makeshift business plan using a Palo Alto b-plan template, i accomplished my goal. Only problem was the title was clouded and the deal never closed. BUT, I still have one of those investors to this day. Now, I am in the position where my best friend and I who i went to school with started a development company. Tough stuff, get mad sometimes, and get frusturated but we keep going at it. The worst part is when we soemtimes have lags and are not prodcutive since we havent signed a lease on an office yet so we get distracted working from our homes. However, we are in our first contract and hopefully will close soon. It is a multi unit development which we should make 200k-350k depending mon what we negotiate with the city since it is a subsidized deal for affordable housing. We want to take that money and then put it into either 1 or 2 apartment buildings. We also have an ex VP of MorganStanley working on our official business plan and is going to handle our investor relations once we really get the ball moving, which is also another step in the right direction. The apartment operting income will be able to "pay the bills" so we can focus our hours on finding deals. (All about the passive income!)

We are also dealing with distressed asset portfolios (non performing loans) since we have made a solid contact that is in with some major player. THe tough part is that even though we have some solid financial backing, we have no solid mentors. We are in the process of trying to get a solid mentor so we dont learn EVERYTHING by trial and error. Some guidance (besides online forums) would be helpful. Professionals are always the base of a great team; and great teams make things happen.

I'm happy this thread was started, mainly since it is obvious most people that own elite cars have an elite mindset. Almost anyone can have that mindset, it is just up to them if they want to or not. Once you realize you want it then get it its then a matter of taking ACTION.

And that magic word, action, is the hardest part of putting it all together to make it reality.

 

Just a word of caution. Do not place too much value on the title of VP at Morgan. I have done business with them for 5 years now and have a pretty intimate understanding of their business and internal workings. VP is a title that has been carried over from the "old boys". Basically if you are trying to sell something are you going to pay attention to a business card that says VP or Senior Analyst? Go back 40 years and this is how it was. They just kept it. You have absolutely no official authority over anything. It is unlikely you are even responsible for a small department... Think team lead... though it varies between departments and divisions... the base holds true... no power... no authority. It is a title only. Compensation wise you are but in the next tier bonus structure and typically the VP title relates to salary; in that it is the next level above an analyst. To sum it up... it doesn't carry any weight at all. They are a dime a dozen at Morgan. The power and money start at the Executive and Managing Director levels. To go from a VP to an ED is VERY difficult and requires a LOT of service, time and sacrifice.

I don't want to discourage you as you have a great thing going. I am not trying to say he doesn't know what he is doing, just stating facts. You already know all the stories about snake oil.

Good luck! You definately got the will and motivation and will do well regardless of what you chose.

.m

 

If you want to save running costs of your Ferrari or any other car for that matter, befriend a good mechanic who you can trust... scratch his back and he will scratch yours... I quiet often get free service cost on my Skyline if not free, then less than 1/3 of the cost.

 

ah yes, that's the difficult part

Ray