Couldn't agree with you more. By the way there is a great article in this Month's EVO on the Countach(Anniversary Model), the last 6.0 Diablo, the Gallardo SuperLegga, and the LP640. Great reading.
Yes, let's give it back to the Italians. That way, the company can experience a near-death deal...again. Despite however much soul Audi has taken out of Lamborghini, they remain the sole reason there is a Lamborghini around today.
Correct, they have done a tremendous job with Lamborghini. Look at the 6.0 Diablo, the car is just about perfect.
I might be way out to lunch here... but isn't Porsche now the primary owner of Audi whom owns Lambo? If so, then isn't the Carrera GT platform also available to Lambo now? Be a pretty good base for a hypercar or certainly the next LP etc?
Not what I said at all, why are you quoting me? Let Audi handle the money, let the Italians handle the soul, simple enough, right? -J
well if they become unreliable clunkers then what good does that do... i dont see how using an italian made engine bits for the same engine makes it any different then a german one... its impossible to determine what a cars sole is... but new cars will never get the same credit as old because they have electronics... understandable
Agreed. Youd have to go back to the SE30 of thirteen years ago to find a Lamborghini with that raw Italian supercar spirit. Joe www.joesackey.com
The "raw" italian supercar spirit is no more. Ever since people wanted cup holders on their supercars and sunglass holders, that spirit has been pretty much extinguished... The fact is that nowadays, no one wants heavy clutches, heavy steering, subpar a/c.... etc. Thats why cars are so heavy now. People want more comfort, speed, luxury, safety and they dont want to sacrifice any of it... So, its really not Audi's fault... Its really the consumers that are driving that spirit to extinction.... Thats the reason also why old lambos are going up in value... Because there are a few diehards that want to preserve that spirit doesnt mean Lamborghini, audi, or even Ferrari are obliged to build new cars with spirit... They are after one thing.... to survive and profit... and if majority of consumers want more spiritless cars...then its really no ones fault....
I doubt it mainly because the Carrera GT is out of production, and whatever was developed on its chassis is probably being used for their new supercar. You claim Audi is a souless company, and that Lamborghini should go back to the Italians. Doing so, as I said, will only bring Lamborghini back to being on the market, regardless of whether Audi sells the company to the Italians or just lets them run it. People can hate or dislike Audi for what they've done to Lamborghini, but they along with VAG must be given some credit for keeping the company alive. I'd like to see Lamborghini hit at least 50 before someone decides they're not worth keeping anymore.
Hmm, what is 'keeping' the company alive is the Gallardo. Lamborghini of yesterday focused its energies on supercar production, that was, as we know, insufficient to maintain the company in the black (accounting wise). Yes they had various 'non' supercars, Espada, Jalpa, etc. but they never found a large audience, I don't think any of the non-supercars ever sold more than 1000 copies. Audi is 'keeping' Murcie production low, well, it's the market that does that, they are just acknowledging that by saying they are keeping production low. If Lamborghini of yesterday had a more 'mid-level' (or low level) product that they can 'feed' the supercar production with they (Lamborghini of yesterday) would likely never had had so many money issues. But, it takes money to make money (as they say) and Lamborghini of yesterday never had enough to produce such a mid-level entry. So, it took Audi's money (and smarts you might say) to produce a more 'sellable' product (read: more possible end consumers) to keep the company alive. There is no way the Murcie is doing that on its own. Lamborghini can be alive as long as it has such a combination (sort of like Ferrari, has low end and high end). It's the 'nintendo' generation moving up that is pushing for all the extras...that's my $.02...I'm not old, but I do like cars to be simple, not into gadgets in my supercars. -J
totally different scenario. as great as it looks P4/5 is simply a rebodied Enzo. now say ferrari had put it into production theres no way would they be able to market it at 4 times odd the cost of the car its based on. if this car turns out to be simply a rebodied and modified Murcielago of some sort then the price tag is frankly ridiculous and anyone who buys one is serioulsy deluded.
yawn in case you had forgotten italian control was not that successful and bankruptcy was always just a small step away Porsche 911 - now if a car could ever be accused of being soulless it woulndt be a 911 944/968 CS - gr8 fun CGT - superb drivers car BMW 2002ti 3.0 CSL M635csi E28 M5 E30 M3 - i recall an article where it about some F40 owners saying they would sell that before there M3 Sport Evo. E36 M3 GT (not the watered down US version of the M3) E46 M3 CSL Audi Quattro - nuff said really. Alpina/Hartge not cars you could accuse of being soulless. VW Beetle Golf GTi (the original mk1) i rest my case m'lud.
it made autoblog http://www.autoblog.com/2007/08/15/enter-the-rumormill-1-5-million-limited-edition-lambo-coming/
Actually, the p4/5 is slightly more than a rebodied ferrari since its been mentioned on the forum of differences and reengineering involved which enhanced its performance over the enzo...possibly similar to the rebodied murcie... And if Ferrari did put the p4/5 into production and asked that price, limit it to 20 cars worldwide, there still would be takers. Simply because of the exclusivity factor is a key selling point. All which supports Lamborghini's move because given that deposits have already been put down for all 20 cars, there are indeed takers. But again its based on exclusivity factor. While some might think it is crazy to buy rebodied cars at such a high premium, ultimately the buyers decide if they want the car... And from the development in terms of Lamborghini selling out the 20 cars... the buyers have indeed decided...
have they ? atm no one seems to know exactly what this car is - if it turns out to be simply a mildly modded murci i wonder (as indeed have others in this thread) if the buyers will go through with the purchase. im not gonna argue about the P4/5 in this a lambo thread except to say that yes a few items have been re engineered but on the whole it is exactly what i said - a rebodied Enzo.
so am i. the thing is, classic ferraris have been restored from a lot less than was left after the accident and are accepted as genuine (if mostly rebuilt) if it happened and assuming it was rebuilt from the genuine article would you be upset if the car surfaced ?
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070816/FREE/70816003/1059/rss01&rssfeed=rss01 Lambo have confirmed that the car will be shown at Frankfurt.
Ultima GTR would dominate the Veyron in all aspects except topspeed and guess what I could build it in my own garage Not only that but it would be more reliable, more practical which means I could drive it everyday as well as to the track on the weekends, it looks more aggressive than a Veyron, I could go on if you want? .
But you forgot one important detail... the Ultima GTR is ugly as hell. At least the Aero SSC and the Mosler look cool enough, but the Ultima's design is disgusting IMHO. I'd even take a Saleen S7 over the Ultima, and THAT'S saying something.
