355 Challenge Car

Hello, I'm considering a purchase of a 355 Challenge car. One of the things that I'm keen in getting is the race history of the car prior to making a decision. If anybody here has any suggestions regarding how to obtain such race history, please let me know.

BTW, one idea that I'm aware of is to contact FNA, but apparently such an info can't be obtained. Does anybody else have a similar experience?

Also, I was told that old Cavallino magazines showed Challenge race results by VIN number. Is this true? If so, what is the best way to obtain such info i.e. race results in 1998 and 1999?

 

I've got no experience with this first hand but is it possible to contact the team and find out first hand?

 

Personally, I think the seller is responsible for providing the history of the car. As there may be clear conflicts of interest, it's up to you to verify (as best as possible) the claims made and, through your own inspection, determine whether the car is "as presented". Obviously, it's much easier to track down the history of one car. Especially when you have the race number. Request time sheets, racing logs (if any were kept) and maintenance logs, and all of that should convey with the car. Have a PPI, leak down and compression test done, as you'll be able to determine how much time you have left on the engine before a rebuild. Check for signs of crash damage (virtually all 355Cs, just as 360Cs, were involved in race incidents or worse). If you can square the claims with your results, you can begin negotiating prices. That said, these cars have no "special" history. No 355C is particularly "important". So, you're looking for the best example you can find, with low hours on the motor, well maintained by someone knowledgeable, little crash damage, competently repaired, spares package (if possible) and so forth.

For my money, my 355C has been the most reliable race car I've ever owned. It feels reasonably fast, has great brakes, is forgiving and, as a Ferrari, makes great noises.

I will PM you.

CW

 

These can be great cars if properly maintained, and it is not inexspensive. The 1995 355 Challenge was the last year they came with titles, so I have heard of people registering them in certain states and using them for rally/track cars. You know, like in the good days. There is someone who at one time visited this forum who knows more than anyone-he is the Father of the FNA Challenge, he'll know the history. I am in the process of creating a website with the records of race results etc, but it is a work in progress. It is true that these are not historic cars raced by the greats, although there are some pro drivers who raced these cars. The car I have won the last 348 Series championship, then three years in the SCCA before becoming a track car. Interesting history, Mugello, and most of the great tracks. I have a great video of it running off and getting stuck in the mud in the rain at Sebring with David Hobbs as the color comentator....By the way, I just had the car refreshened and plan to be at the national meet at Watkins Glen. I am torn on these stripes. Should I go back with the orginal stripes, or say, go with the Italian Flag collors?
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Thanks for the replies so far. Unfortunately, the party who is selling it doesnt have any of the race history. He bought it apparently in post-2000 and it was raced in the US in 98 and 99.

Cornerswell, thanks for the advice on things to consider. I agree in that C cars don't have special race history i.e. participation in major race series or driven by professional drivers, etc. Such history would be a huge bonus, but the fact that these were factory-built race cars is the next best thing. Besides, the prices seem to be relatively attainable compared to other race cars with better history. Of course, I have always liked the 355 as a F model...

Juan, I prefer your car without the blue stripes. The Italian colors would be nice. In terms of the 95 355, I would consider these years as well. The streetability factor would be a plus. One thing that has made me consider the newer C cars is that I can still drive them in the street i.e. to and from the race track under a special 3-day permit in Washington state. Therefore, for the times that I get the itch to drive this car off the track, I am thinking that I could still do it under this permit.

 

I have some pics of this car Love it, and common to some of the SC shows. (second pic is at Indy tho )
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Northeast auto in Pittsburgh has a black 95 Challenge car for sale. It does in fact have a title and is driven on the street. Pretty neat way to play.

 

I know the car in Pittsburgh well. The owner drove it on the street regularly. I know it was wrecked at least once---don't think it was too bad though.

 

Thanks for the replies so far. Unfortunately, the party who is selling it doesnt have any of the race history. He bought it apparently in post-2000 and it was raced in the US in 98 and 99.

Cornerswell, thanks for the advice on things to consider. I agree in that C cars don't have special race history i.e. participation in major race series or driven by professional drivers, etc. Such history would be a huge bonus, but the fact that these were factory-built race cars is the next best thing. Besides, the prices seem to be relatively attainable compared to other race cars with better history. Of course, I have always liked the 355 as a F model...

Juan, I prefer your car without the blue stripes. The Italian colors would be nice. In terms of the 95 355, I would consider these years as well. The streetability factor would be a plus. One thing that has made me consider the newer C cars is that I can still drive them in the street i.e. to and from the race track under a special 3-day permit in Washington state. Therefore, for the times that I get the itch to drive this car off the track, I am thinking that I could still do it under this permit.

 

PM Sent

CW

 

I don't have much experience with purchasing used race cars, in fact, I actually have none...

But what an awesome looking car...I hope you find a nice one.

 

I get such a chuckle when I read these posts about people wanting to drive a Challenge car on the street. I am assuming most who make these statements have never sat in any type of race car let alone a Challenge car. Consider the following:

1) Carbon fiber front bumper that sits less than an inch off the ground. Even the most minor speed bump or pot hole and you now have an unrepairable bumper that FNA no longer makes and that will cost in excess of $2000 unpainted if someone does happen to have one.

2) Brakes that were taken off the 333 SP's, that unless you drag the brake pedal at over 100 mph, will never get any heat in them to function. It takes three to four laps at the track to get heat in them and that's haulin' a$$ with the brake pedal dragging

3) 900 pounds for a soft set up and 2200 pound springs for a stiff set up. Now factor in that a street 355 has at most 400 pound springs installed. You cannot drive a car with 1000 pound springs on the street even on the most smooth pavement.

4) State laws in many states that forbid harnesses or roll bars.

Folks, I owned the last 95 F355 C built and had over 8000 track/race miles on the car. There is absolutely no way you could drive one of these on the street. With the exception of the 348's which had street brakes and mainly street suspensions you would be crazy to drive a 355/360 on the street.

Kind Regards,

Jon Kofod
www.flatoutracing.net

 

Me thinks Jon knows what he's talkin bout.

 

I have a factory '97 355C that I drive on the street and I don't consider myself to far out there. I changed the brake pads to a more streetable compound, changed the springs to 950 frt and 400 rear, still very stiff but also exceptable on the street(for me at least) since the suspension is adjustable I raised it up about an inch and 1/2, reset the toe and camber and changed one set of wheels to road tires, spent some time on the track adjusting the swaybars and tire presures to work with the lighter springs and geometry changes. The car still has the factory challenge exhaust on it with the addition of header baffles to quiet it down somewhat. I only put about 3000 miles a year on it and usually only on country roads love the way it handles and sounds. The solid bushings need a little more attention than the road car does and they are a little noisey but I like doing my own maintanence and this car gives me that entertainment. I wouldn't even consider a road 355 doesn't interest me in the least. Not trying to argue with you Jon because for sure this car is not for the faint of heart HaHaHa, but I think the 355C is a great hot rod for those who want something different. regards, Vern

 

Jon,

I agree fully. I know of a couple of guys who tried to drive their cars on the street with results like you state. To me to convert one of the cars to be able to be driven on the street takes away from the real purpose the car was built for.

BTW, I still remember the story you told of the guy who came into your neighborhood, in a ricer I believe, acting like a race driver and you ended up bringing out the 355 to kind of let him know what a real race car is. I really laughed the way you told it. I believe it was on a quiet Sunday morning if my memory serves me right.

You may not know me as Anotherdunnedeal. I was Audiguy back then............Good to see you on here again..........

 

According to FOW my car is set up as it was for Sebring. I have driven it over 35,000 in the last three years, including all the way to Indy, on the Grand Prix track where it only hit 135 on the straight (a new 430 claimed 155), IRP for three days, then home. Total over 1,700 miles. Been to Amelia, Daytona, Sebring, VIR, Road Atlanta, Summit Point. In a few weeks, you'll see me pass through DC up to Corning to the national meet www.fca2007.org on 9-28 and back to Columbia SC, although I am getting too old for this and just had the car redone. So, I may take up trailering the car and just doing local rallys like the Dragon, Blue Ridge, Hilton Head Island Concours, and one we have coming up on our site www.fca-sc.org. I like the fact that I can use this a rally/track car. But I agree with Jon, if you want to go fast, you should only take these risk on the track. As far as I am concerned, after 95, they are all race cars, but I would really like to have a 360 Challenge or convert a 360 to the ultimate Stradale. We don't need no stinking air conditioner, heck, mine dose'nt even have the compresor, althought the series said to run with one, but no belt. Be safe, don't put others in harms way, go fast on the track, although that is relative given my modest ability. Get the 355 and Enjoy!
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+1 Juan on all that you said, Hahaha now there is positive additude and you're never to old. Also firmly agree on the fact that racing belongs on the track not the street. I didn't buy my car to go fast/racing on the street I just happen to like machinery and the 355CH is best piece of that my wallet could justify. No air and no head lights gotta be home before dark LOL, Regards, Vern

 

Jon,

Thanks for your input/perspective on the 355Ch streetability. I certainly don't have first hand experience with driving a Challenge car in the street; however after learning that some folks in this site actually do or have done so, I started entertaining it.

Again my primary intention is to have a factory race car. Being able to drive to/from the track would be an added benefit, as opposed to having a dedicated truck/trailer set up. In the 90's, I raced a 69 911 and then moved on to driving open-wheel cars i.e. Formula Ford and Formula Mazda. I even had a fortunate opportunity to drive a 98 Champ car one time. Now, I'm getting to a point in which I can and would like to do some track driving again, but I would rather get something that has potential future collectibility, some race provenance, etc. With this criteria, there is not much out there that I like and that is within my current price range. At the same time, I'm trying to maintain a simple setup by not having a truck/trailer/equipment. Perhaps, this is unrealistic for me as per your input regarding streetability...

Thanks again. I may have an opportunity to drive a Challenge car soon and experience it for myself; in the meantime, I welcome other suggestions.

Mike

 

Personally, I agree that driving a challenge car on the street isn't as much fun as it sounds. While it would certainly be fun for a day, I think the novelty would wear off fairly quickly. All of Jon's comments are accurate. However, to each their own. PM sent, mclaudio.

CW

 

i reduced my spring rate to 550 front and 450 back. (still double what a road car's got) and it's an absolute joy and a blast to use on the road. It's got the a/c in it though...and the road interior....but handling, brakes and the sound is pure horn.

 

The 355CH is my all time favorite Ferrari.

I love its looks, and its sounds.


I sadly have never ridden in one.

Hopefully, by the time im ready to own a Ferrari in the next 10-15 years they will still be around.

 

Vern, you are in GJ now?

 

I think the question is whether its a good idea, and is it within your budget.

I went through this same querry two years ago. Here are some questions-What is your budget? Do you plan to track your car with street tires? Will you have tech support/dealer or do you plan to work on the 355CH yourself? Do you mind running in the back of the pack? Do you really think a 'well used' track car with very little racing pedigree will appreciate significantly?

If you are going to be competitive, you will have to run slicks, bc the 355CH lacks power compared to modern cars and you can't give anything away. Thus, you will have to trailer the car to the track or give up seconds. Also, if you don't have dealer support, you will probably need to bring a fair amount of equipment and tools to the track. The long term cost of tracking a Ferrari is high compared to other cars, say, a Viper (what I ended up buying). The 355 has a tendency to require top end rebuilds (according to the techs that I spoke with), which is not cheap. Track pads are illegal on the street, and could produce an accident (your stopping power will take anyone by surprise) and legal liability.

Whatever your budget is, figure out how many track events you plan to do in a year and what the cost will be. In my Viper, a set of tires is $1600, brake pads another $600, fluid changes another $200, registration cost is $600+, then there is fuel, transportation, lodging and food. When I say a track weekend costs $3000, it does. I can't imagine a 355CH is cheaper unless you just go out to play. Now, once you have the car, if you don't track it, it will either become a garage queen or a mean ass street car (like Vern's). Sure you wouldn't rather have a pristine TR in the garage?

Anyway, I understand the desire. Good luck with your decision. Jim

 

Do you have the serial # of the car that you are looking to buy?

 

Yes, it is #...111840 and was supposed to be raced in 98 and 99 (US series).