I'm fed up with my 308's lack of AC!!

I agree. Sometimes you have to go back to the basics and I may have jumped the gun a little with the 134 thing. 134 has been a bit of a thorn in my side here lately

 

LOL Gee, we couldn't tell! We've all got our issues that push our buttons. Mine is K&N filters. LOL

 

Thats not a bad price!

 

Do your best to stay with R12. Everybody's situation is different. R12 is also easier on the compressor- less pressure required. R12 will do fine with existing condensor/fan. How much larger size condensor can one install in a 308? (I dont know this, sorry). That will be the KEY. CAn one fit in there a larger condensor/fan? If not, FORGET R134a.

I know where Doc T is coming from. And the thing about the doomsday scenario on R12.....well, years ago they said it would hit astronomical prices. It has not happened yet. Biggest problem is getting a shop to do it. But with some searching, not to hard to find.

If one insists to go with R134a, and removes all the mineral oil, be sure to use Ester oil, compatible with both so if you want to go BACK to R12, no need to get the oil out again!

 

i see cans of r12 on ebay all the time. what i'd like to see is a totally upgraded system. new compressor, high cfm blower, extra vent outlets. with modern effective systems out in production it doesn't seem such a unsurmountable problem.

 

Call Tim Stanford Exotic cars in Miami, he's really good.

 

What was that crap in the evaporator? Looks almost like disintegrated foam. If the fins were substantially clogged with that stuff, that would certainly cut down the cooling efficiency of the unit.

 

Rob, you are my new hero! I eagerly await news on a possible solution to our crappy 308 A/C fans!!

I've already updated to a Sanden rotary, but still need stronger airflow through the vents.....

Greg in Houston

PS-- I bought my aluminum 308 pedals from you a couple years ago, didn't I??

 

Rob is also my hero. I may purchase a set of Aluminum door sills just to support this project.

Good show on the dis-assembly of the evap and blower fan.

We NEED MORE CFMs!!!!!!!!!

No need to call Italy, call SpalUSA, www.spalusa.com. They have a tech guy there.

Look online, you will see comparable units that flow a LOT of CFM. I found nothing in the IDENTICAL size, however. The unit appears to be made by Borletti, perhaps even in a custom context.

Can something bigger squeeze in?

 

Great pics! That blk crud disintegrated is of course, the foam that prevents the condensation from being blown around past the drain line, as most of us know. You will have to get new foam(easy ). Copper evap.....niiiice. Should last for eons, unlike the alum ones today, although, the copper is less efficient in heat transfer.

Wish I had a project like that going on in my garage(pouting , jealously). I applaude you for searching out the solutions for the 308's substandard ac!!

Dont forget to clear out the old oil in the evap. I used first, air, then, clean mineral spirits, then air again to purge out the min spir, then let air dry. (Nitrogen better, but not always available).

 

I have a friend that switched to a more powerful blower.

End result; no change at all!

I think the biggest problem is lack of vents, and the existing vents are too restrictive.

I pulled the grills and leave them sit loosely in the vent. When a/c is needed, I pull them out. It seems to help a bit, as there is more airflow.

 

Can you provide details regarding this larger 308 blower?

Thanks,
Greg

 

Thanks to your photos, I now see what those pieces of disintegrated foam was that were flying out my a/c vents (another post from a few days ago).

Can you advise, what was the procedure to remove this evaporator unit from the dash?

Thanks,
Phil

 

i think we're getting close to a solution. this could be a noble prize winner. the cure for polio pales in comparision. carry on rob.

 

You can't increase cooling capacity by simply blowing more air through an evaporater of a given size. Along with other things, you need a bigger evaporater and then more refrigerant in the system etc. to increase cooling. Now if there is some partial blockage to the airflow or a basic design flaw you could correct those and maybe gain a small increase in efficiency but your not going to get the kinds of gains (increased cooling) some people are looking for.

Having said that, you can feel more cooling by increasing fan speed, vent size etc. (even with the A/C compressor off) just by the increased evaporation of sweat from your skin. Still, it's not the same as cold, dryed air from an operating A/C unit.

 

Excuse the pun, but is it the evaporator "size" that matters?

Will a new/modern evaporator - the same size as the stock component give or take some allowable tolerances - since it would be 20+ years newer, maybe laid out differently, made of different materials or designed differently, improve the a/c system? Granted, I suppose a modern evaporator would have been designed for R134, and I am not certain what would have to be done to retrofit it to make it R12 usable, but maybe instead of looking to change the stock evap motor to enable more flow, or convert the system overall to R134, maybe the answer is along with a new compressor, change out the evaporator as well.

My knowledge of a/c systems borders on theory only, so I am uncertain this idea has any merit.

Phil

 

I'm not an A/C expert either but just changing the material of the evaporator or putting in a newer one will not solve the problem. In each system there is a given amount of refrigerant (X amount in ounces or pounds). X amount of refrigerant has the ability to absorb X amount of heat and no more. Just laws of physics. A bigger, more powerful system will have more refrigerant in it and correspondingly larger, evaporator, condensor etc. etc. It will have the ability to remove more heat from a space of a given size than a system with less refrigerant.

I would try to stick with R12 and optomize everything in your system. Clean all the electrical contacts, remove any debris from the condensor and evaporator fins, straighten any bent fins, make sure the compressor belt is not slipping, have the system flushed, maybe a new expansion valve, make sure that the system is not over or under-charged, put in a new dryer if yours is old etc. Maybe replace the pressure switches in case they're cutting off the compressor prematurely.

Keep in mind that automotive systems always work best when the condensor has airflow from the car moving (ram effect). When you are stationary and have to rely only on the condensor fan the cooling is usually not as great.

Maybe the system's greatest benefit is helping to keep the windshield clear with dried air on those days there is a lot of humidity or when driving in the rain.

European cars were never known for having the really powerful A/C systems that American cars have (especially "back in the day")

 

No, what I meant was, maybe the evap needs to be reconfigured to be able to support a larger core. Or maybe we need to pull an evaporator from an early 80's (dare I say) Fiero or other donor - most likely an American brand as nothing up until the 90's beats American brand auto a/c.

If an engineer considers the size of the 308 cabin, and adds to that a factor to account for the windshield greenhouse effect, and maybe another factor to account for the coolant pipes running through the underside of the cabin, and then some extra because we've been suffering so long...somehow, that all translates into BTUs.

Then find a donor system that supports that amount of BTUs. A pre-R134 MB system, or something out of a Caddy.

Why can't that work? That's essentially what we all do in our homes. Keeping the existing hoses and pipes, what do we need to change, the condenser, compressor and evaporator. Maybe the dryer. I don't know about the evap, but the other parts are bolt off/on.

Seems like we need to take a different approach. When we all need or want our suspensions to act differently, we don't just cut the shocks open and change the oil, we design a new shock, spring, bushing, tie rod, sway bar system.

Shouldn't the a/c issue be looked at in the same way?

Phil