and again ferrari disappoint with a road car that is made out to be a week-end track god . it won't be , but should be for the price they are charging us . it all depends what you buy the car for . if you buy it for the latte scene , and you are happy , then enjoy the purchase .
Massa is really proud and happy to be a Ferrari driver and I don't see that in Kimi at all. So you might just be right about Kimi.
Who cares if it's faster then an Enzo. I've tracked everything from BMW 2002s to GT3 Cup cars, and the two most fun cars I've ever driven are the Lotus Elise and the Original E30 M3. So for me it's obviously not about the speed. 0-60 in under 4.5 seconds and a top speed over 170 should be fast enough for anybody. Is it about bragging rights? I think so since 99.9% of people couldn't get a 430S, a CS or a Enzo anywhere near 1:28 at Fiorano. A street car is always a compromise and will always disappoint when pushed hard on the track by a top driver, the street GT3 is no different, If you want a no-compromise weekend track car then get a trailer and a dedicated track toy. A Ferrari is more then just performance numbers and lap times, it's about the sights and sounds of a rare and exotic machine with racing history like no other brand. It's about feel and workmanship and recently technological innovation.
For now i'll look to the numbers and my own experiences. YMMV. ;-) I can't speak for the Porsches. But the same gent I spoke of earlier in this thread also owns(ed?) a CGT and Man! you should have seen him blow my doors off @PIR. I think I might have it on video somewhere. FUN!!! I Luvs Fast Cars! BTW; I am also lusting for a Porsche (GT series?) w/a PDK. The moment Porsche get w/the 21st century (ironic since they invented the ACT in the 90s) Ferrari are in for a reckoning. Oh, I just remembered .... another BTW: During the first two months of this years HPDE season we saw four (4) GT-3s @PIR. All four driven by Advanced/Instructor level drivers. Three (3) were trashed immediately One on opening day by a better driver than I am. Morals? 1) Ferrari need to keep their rep for the BEST in an ever growing competitive market. The Tifosi and luxury crowd alone won't keep Ferrari in the Red (pun intended) given what's in store for the coming year. I am so rooting for the Scuderia to be "all that" .... and more. 2) Fast cars, even in the best hands, can fail to finish. Specially if they're "loose" by design. Peace, Richard.
Please correct me .... I was under the impression that Ferrari can be trusted in re HP nowadays. In re weight: I'll give them the benefit of doubt. E.g. my F430F1, CCBs, etc, etc, weighs app 3475 Lbs as weighed by Adrenaline Racing. But I can see how a stripped version (e.g. no additional leather trim) devoid of fluids, could weigh 3250. The lap times @Fiorano are probably not truly important because we have plenty of other lap times, on other tracks, etc, to compare. I was under the impression that the track was open to other drivers. E.g track days, test days, HPDEs by Ferrari, etc. But I suppose we could argue lap times all day ..... the point I was trying to make in this context was that unless Ferrari have found a way to repeal the laws of physics there's no way a Scud can be faster than an Enzo in an honest contest. Note: I'd bet that an STI is waaay faster than an F430 around the "Streets of Willow" racetrack. And the former is more verstile, etc. But which would you rather have. ;-) Peace, Richard.
Too early to tell, IMHO. Ah, value .... sooo subjective. But if you mean that for the *rumored* price of $250K-US, plus "market," Ferrari could have given us a more capable car .... the answer is .... that Ferrari obviously think that the typical buyer is more interested in "style" than substance. I'm sure some will. But I think that most would be unwilling to pay for a Scud that's a Dud! <chuckle> Isn't speculating FUN!? <shhh> Peace, Richard.
Honestly, I don't. I do think that most care if it's not substantially better handling (ergo; faster) than an F430. Of course. But I submit that an Exiige and a built (like mine) 05 M3 are faster than your examples .... and just as much FUN on a typical roadrace course. You're ops, etc, are respected. But for me ..... it's always about "speed" when discussing sportscars. Methinks that applies to most sportscar buyers. Weeeelll, it's certainly not fast enough for me or i'd never track my F430. <lol> Seriously, the Scud is billed as a pure sportscar. Is it? Time will tell. <shrug> I'm no longer in a hurry to get one. Nope, that's why we buy Ferraris instead of Corvettes. <chuckle> I want to buy a Scud because it's faaast! Sure, but the fact is that we're talking about sportscar "nuts." IOW; "Ferrari drivers..." not simply "Ferrari owners..." (BTW, out of *my* mouth .... the latter is NOT a disparaging remark.) "Drivers" will be faster in an F430 than they'd be in a CS, for example. Now do you really want to show up to an HPDE in what is billed as the epitome of sportscars and have someone blow past you on the brakes because of your car's poor design? Won't it matter to you that lesser drivers, in lesser cars, are "faster?" Not talking about *any* streetcar. The topic's the Scud. It's not supposed to be as much of a compromise .... as the F430 it's built from. I'm not disappointed w/my F430 in general. But I know it could be better if Ferrari hadn't catered so much to the luxury crowd. I'm not sure what you mean. Sure, all cars involve compromises. But comparing a GT3 to a Scuderia is premature .... at best. I don't. <shrug> If Ferrari didn't offer the Scud as a, so called, track toy then I would look elsewhere. In fact .... I am looking elsewhere but still withholding final judgement. Nope. Sorry to disagree but Ferraris are sold based on Peformance Numbers & Lap Times. It's the Tifosi who won't admit that Ferraris may be losing their cachet. Because w/o it Tifosi lose all sense of being cognoscenti. W/o a strong feeling that one is buying a fast car, heck the Best Sportscar .... how long do you think it'll take for the huddled masses to look upon Ferraris as "Poser" cars and then we can kiss Ferrari et al goodbye. For w/o the public perception of incredible performance Ferraris will quickly lose desirability. Let's face it .... Ferrari have only one material advantage over, for example, Porsche .... the F1 tranny. So they must offer us cars that are truly competitive (from a performance POV) against the many sports/gt cars coming out w/ACTs (ie; automat clutch trannys). Oh please, one could say the same about Ford. Anyone for a rare and exotic Edsel? Ford's racing heritage is distinguished .... to say the least. Heck, if Ford had any sense they would have KILLED the F430 w/the now defunct Ford GT. But i digress. <sigh> Yes! And about performance. Reminder; we speak of the Scud. Hardly likely. Please .... Get Real! Sure, Ferrari now that they're part of FIAT, are much better at it than in years past but the workmanship is no better than a, e.g. Lexus. Anyone for an LF-A w/ACT? Be afraid Ferrari .... be very afraid. <insert maniacal laugh a la widmark> Not for long. Everyone is announcing sports/gt cars w/ACTs and all manner of tech advances. Which is why I strongly urge Ferrari to read the writing on the wall. Or five years from now .... And let's look at the tech advances you speak of .... exactly what are they in comparison to other moden fast cars? Allow me to elaborate .... exactly what is it about the Scuderia that far better than other offerings in re workmanship and tech? As for feel .... that's partially due to believing Ferraris are so freaking advanced .... not a feeling one will keep for much longer if the Scud's a Dud! Peace, Richard.
Just for the record, and not because I want to get into an argument with Richard, who I'm sure is accurately relating his experiences, but my 430 is quite startlingly good on the track (at least I was pleasantly surprised), lapping on the tail of a CS driven by a pro-quality driver on a handling track (Infineon). Stock car, stock Pirelli PZeros, Ferodo pads. I had none of the "happy tail" characteristics Richard refers to. I do occasionally get a minor scrape under hard braking for turn 11, where there is a bump at just the wrong spot. Gary
No prob Gary. You and I have chatted about this in the past and your input has been very helpful. And no I haven't forgotten about your offer of a ride at Infineon. We still plan to get down there. Maybe w/a new Scud? ;-) Hope so. <sigh> As for driver error .... of course one would question my experiences. Ergo: I offer that my experiences mirror those of respected F-Chat member @PIR. Ask for refs and I shall PM the parties. Or simply post a thread in the PNW forum? <shrug> But really, we (f430 "drivers") all know that the F430 F1 is too softly sprung and underdamped for track use. And we all know how that will affect handling in a mid-endgine car w/huge CCBs while braking downhill and/or over rough pavement. On a level and smooth braking surface .... AWESOME. You should drive a CCB equipped F430F1 @Infineon Gary. I'd bet you'd be pleased! Peace, Richard.
Another 430 Scuderia Preview Vid!... Check out the speech... "Better than an enzo on Fiorano" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWyeT49XDZA
I spoke to a lot of Ferrari owners at this launch and most want to brag about how many Ferraris they have, what models and how low the milage is on each car. Why are they thinking of buying this car? Just another one to lock away and wank over to whoever wants to listen.
Patriek, I don't agree with you on this point! I was 2 weeks ago (26-27-28 august) at the Mugello track on the Zénith Ferrari Day's. There was approximately 80 Ferrari/Maserati, some F355, 360 Modena, 550 & 575 Maranelo and a lot 430 and 599GTB. I was the only one with a CS and I've done the best lap time of all the street cars (the 430 Challenge from the team Trottet get the best lap time and I was 2nd right after him). My laps were in 2:15 and the fastest 430's were 2-3 seconds after! Also, there was a professional driver who drove several customers' cars (many 430 and 599GTB) during the full day to show them what the cars could do and he never have done best lap times that the CS! By the end of the day the Ferrari dealer "Garage Zénith" usually organize a race for all of those who want to participate and I won the race! Here are some pictures from that event: http://www.asphalte.ch/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3679 There was another Fchat member "bjc138" that can confirm what I am saying! Patriek, sorry to say but you must realize that the CS is still the king!!!
or you where the best driver, or all the others where really amateurs ... I can not imagine that a professional driver can't beat your lap times with a 430, impossible ! He must have saved the customers cars ! ..........and I do realize that the CS WAS the king, now it's for sure the new scuderia !
For the record- I was at Silverstone a couple of weeks ago with various FCars including 360CS and 430 Challenge. The Challenge cars were 10 seconds per lap faster than the CS - and the Challenge car that I timed most didn't even have the right geometry set up for this track. The stock 430 cars were similar pace to the CS, but a touch slower.
