I know there is another thread about the ruling regarding the Mclaren scandal. I want to keep this thread on the specific topic of Mclaren drivers points......... I understand that this is a Ferrari board, but as objectively as you can be, please consider the question. For me, I'm a MB / Mclaren and Ferrari fan.... So it's been a fun cat and mouse year for me. That said, I was disturbed by the allegations against Mclaren and waited until know to here the outcome of the hearing to base an opinion. I understand that the governing body made some immunity deal with Alanzo and LH, but putting that aside, do you think it's right that they not be docked points for gaining an advantage due to this scandal? ......... I'll start......... I think points should have been deducted from both drivers. The decision not to will affect how I watch their races from now on.
I think the whole team should have been shown the door until 2008. and not just because Ferrari would win. This whole season is not 100% FUBAR What a shame for LH. His driving is amazing, especially for his 1st year.
Exactly what facts were brought to light today have yet to be revealed to the public (me), so I cannot yet say. Clearly they were significant, to go from FIA "probation" to an unprecedented fine and loss of points, etc.
Yes, if the car is faster because of Ferrari info. I think one reason WDC points weren't taken away is to save the season from being over. Now there is still a lot of drama left as to who will win the WDC. Bottom line is money, and this way, money can still be made by all.
Since MB / Mclaren has nothing to lose now, I wouldn't be surprised if FA has a little issue with his car the next few races. I don't know what would motivate them to support him. He seems to have moved on......
The team makes the car. The drivers, who are part of the team, drive the car and score both WDC/WCC points. The team was penalized by having their WCC points stripped. Levying no penalty toward the WDC is a joke. They can't be separated. The whole McL team should of been banned for the remainder of the season. Pack it up until 2008.
I voted no because the drivers appear to have done nothing wrong and it has not been proven that Ferrari technology went into their cars, yes, some people there had the information but it does not appear (at least it was not proven) to have been used. If Hamilton or Alonso win, there will always be a * next to their name for this year with fine print at the bottom "may have cheated" but it was not proven so unfortunately I think they should keep their points which wipes Massa's out chances.
Does the veredict mean that Mclaren drivers did not benefit from Ferrari's information while the team did? This is a double standard. Both drivers should have lost their points as well.
If any information went into the cars deduct all the points. Even if it is a suspicion, some points should still be deducted around 20.
The driver's are doing well because they have a car that was built using stolen technology of course they should lose points. I can't believe they were not docked points it has to only be because people will stop watching if the ferrari boys are racing one another. People want to see if lewis can do it.
I understand that logic...... Let's assume for discussion that the drivers did nothing wrong and didn't know about the issues at all. I think, based on the decision today, that a reasonable person could surmise that Mclaren benefited from the information and it was used in the cars. Taking that into account, let's say that the information gained allowed them the advantage of producing a car with a 1000 more hp and a lot more usable down force. Then the drivers used these "super cars" to win races. Do you not think it reasonable to deduct some points that may have been gained by the advantage, even if unbeknown to the drivers?
What ever happened to the alledged e-mails that the drivers were sending back and forth? If that's true, then the drivers knew and should definatly be docked points.
The only reason I can see for the governing board not to deduct points from the drivers is because they were given immunity. I have no idea other than trying to keep a semblance of a racing season why else they would do it. If they needed their evidence, which I find suspect, then a reduced penalty would have been in order......But, full immunity sounds like a back room deal. Though, for me it has done the opposite. I believe that immunity was given too freely and has tainted my opinion of the judgement of the governing board. They must take us for fools to make us think this is a balanced decision.
yep... they want the rookie to win, they couldnt ruin their new poster boy... whatever ferrari will get the constructors, next year well see who really has the faster car made by their team and yeah they would deduct from them because of the immunity, and without their testimony would they have been able to nail mclaren?
Loose all points. Donate all salary to FIAs "Please help Bernie get the biggest Megayacht" Fund. Caned and then flogged. (vice versa OK too, I'm flexable). Have to wear a scarlet letter forever more (or until they sign with Ferrari at which point they become a Chosen One). Seems reasonable.
Too bad it has been shown that the ferrari is the faster car this year. Bottom line the ferrari's are unreliable and the driver are second rate. Mclaren is the only team to have its drivers finish all the races. I highly doubt anything they saw helped them make the cars do this. Also as for ferrari drivers being second rate... The commenters hit it dead on the head during the nuringburg race when they commented on how alonso DESTROYED kimi in the rain. They said that the mclaren team seems to be winning due to better drivers not cars. I just love how before the season everyone was laughing at alonso saying that he was going to hate mclaren since they are unreliable because kimi had problem... now look how wrong you were. EXACT opposite. Burn.
what a load of rubbish has been posted in this and other threads on the subject. ive been following this from the start and havent seen any evidence whatsoever to show any performance gains. depends what it was. tyre information for example - its pretty undeniable that ferrari had an extremely unfair advantage this season over the ex michelin runners. and where does the number 20 come from ? the cars were built and designed waaaaaaaaaaaay before any information was passed over. i think weve lost sight of the fact that this whole mess was unfortunately started by a man in the employ of Ferrari, a man who felt he had been mistreated by the scuderia. have McL likely gained any advantage over Ferrari from this information ? not likely, the cars are simply too different. are they being penalised for gaining an advantage - well it doesnt seem so, they broke a section of the code that also covers bringing the sport into disrepute. one last thing, Ferrari isnt exactly guiltless when it comes to cheating - lets not forget that.
Ferrari said they were happy with the result so lets not go bring up the same old crap and move on with the issue. Ok its does not seem fair drivers keeping points ..The FIA have been very clever IMO for letting the drivers of the hook. It cut two ways it looked good for them two insure drivers giving evidence, but mainly keeping them racing for us the fans.. and thats whats matters .. And will the prats that keep saying Mclaren stole FERRARI DATA stop thinking It'll get you in a lot of trouble thinking, If I were you, I wouldn't do too much of it.. They were given it...
The team took ferrari info and it... 1)...made their cars faster 2)...made their cars slower 3)...didn't make a difference to the cars In 2 out of 3 of those possablities the drivers should not lose points. In 3 out of 3 of those possablities the team should lose points. Make sense? .
No question. The WCC points are gone because the car constructor did not honour the rules. Whether the drivers had no idea if the car constructor they drive for used elements illegally learned from another team matters not. The car they drive is considered technically illegal by the authorities. Ultimately, that precludes any other factor. I'll be amazed if other teams agree that McLaren should be allowed to race the rest of the season. If one of my team's valid point scoring cars was taken out by tangling with a car whose entry in the race was quite literally 'pointless', there'd be hell to pay.....
You have your opinion, everyone else has theirs... no one here has the facts... so no one here can be right or wrong for certain. Perhaps tomorrow we will see what is what.
a better question would be does anyone find this whole penalty somewhat out of context ? i dont recall toyota getting this sort of treatment and they had 10,000+ pages of stolen data
