The official replica/re-creation thread

just because you may have the means to buy the Mona Lisa and decide to increase her cup size because you like busty chicks, doesn't mean you should.

of course people CAN chop up 2+2s to make fakey-doos, but it is at the expense of a fixed and dwindling number of vintage Ferraris. If Classiche were really smart, they would start making GTOs and pontoon-fendered TRs from scratch on a production basis and make a bundle . . . but that is another topic.

 

If you know about a car for that price - mail me imeditley - I probley will buy it.

I am not going to race the car - I will drive it and look at it.

 

I would like to give fellow FChatters some background on GTE #3905 which was butchered for this Replica. 3905 was owned by a fellow Ferrari enthusiast here in Toronto. The owner Dave Freer called me to tell me he faced serious surgery and he needed to sell the GTE to raise some badly needed funds. I had talked to Dave before but never had seen 3905. I went to his humble bungalow and there sat the most original and correct GTE that I had seen in my 25yrs of GTE ownership. Yes the dark red paint was cracked but it was original and rust free. I envied his perfect front and rear bellypans and other hard to find GTE bits that get lost over time. I begged him to separate the toolkit and sell it but he told me that the buyer had told him no the kit stays with the car since he'd be restoring the GTE and wanted it complete.
Such a waste, this was a car worth keeping it wasn't a basket case. I'm sorry I diidn't buy it at $35000. This weekend I think I'm going to call on Dave (he's OK now) with #2831 and go for a good blast in the countryside.
I don't have the heart to tell him about #3905.

 

I own a perfect 1955 410 SA but I have a problem : the roof is too much low and so, the car is not funny to drive for me.

Wait a minute... That's it !!! I will turn it into a convertible... So what ?? There was never a 410 SA convertible ??

I can do that as I'm the owner !!!!

 

BINGO !!!

If they were to start building exact duplicates of GTO's and TR's and allow them into the Ferrari Historic Challenge events and other historic racing it would be fantastic. I would be interested depending on price.





Terry

 

Aardy

I certainly see your point and I wouldn't turn a GTE into a TR replica either but I must admit at the same time I had no problem with turning an Enzo into P 4/5, and in the end neither did Ferrari, so on some level it's a personal feeling that one follows.

Regards

 

Okay, so many early Ferraris, especially the 250 series, have been rebodied. But I really don't see the point, even if they're built on a Ferrari chassis.

I don't even really approve of the 308/288 rebodies. Why not be happy with an original Ferrari, even if it's "just" a 308 or 328?

These cars (250 GTO, 288 GTO, 250 Testarossa) were built in such limited numbers that it's easy to find out who has an original.

I guess the owners can do whatever they want, but butchering a 250 in this manner seems like a travesty to me.

 

The appeal and such would seem obvious.

I would really like to have a 250GT SWB. I mean REALLY. They are drop dead gorgeous, have to be a flat out blast to drive and if I had one I would drive it all the time. On the track...on the road... to run errands and to take the wife to dinner. I would like to have one NOT as an investment, not as garage art, not for bragging rights at the club but because the driving experience and fun it would provide me would make me happy.

But I cannot have one. They are simply well beyond my means and reality is thats unlikely to change.

I do not want to own a 250 GTE. I like them well enough, but not well enough to want to own and drive one. They do not light my fire.

But, a replica 250 SWB that is exact in detail on the level of the fake Lord Brockett passed off as the real thing such that even the "experts" could not tell the difference, at a price under $200K? Yes, please. Looks, sounds, drives, smells and matches the real thing in every way but the paperwork.... fine by me. I am not into these kinds of things because of the paperwork. I am reasonably certain that sliding sideways through turn 10 at Road Atlanta my butt wouldn't care that my ride didn't have pedigree'd paperwork. I wouldn't make any attempt to pass it off as the real thing, I couldn't care less what others think of it one way or another. Its a car for crying out loud.

But such a replica is the only way a guy like me would ever get to play with such a toy.



Terry

 

I love Napolis post 13 and 22 as well. In the future will Napolis be considered as the guy who rebodied a GTO?


I am a very, very firm believer in personal property rights. I am a firm believer in the publics rights as well. The Mona Lisa argument, I think you will agree, is reaching.

I am considering the rebody of a less loved Ferrari in something other than a TR or GTO. Am I to be ostracized?

I hope more TR and GTO repro buyers will find one already done also.





"I believe that the hobby is bid enough for everyone."

 

Were the original Cali. hotrodders destroyers?

I'll enjoy my love in the firm belief that it grings me joy and doesn't hurt others regarless of their protests.

 

Guys,

Yet again you are missing the point (Jim even states it but you have to read between the lines): Rebodies of a YOUNG Ferrari are fine. They are called period rebodies.

Thus anybody can do what they please with a newish Ferrari (ie. Jims Enzo to P4/5 conversion), as they have done since Ferrari started making cars. Therefore please, please, please stop comparing the sacrifice of an OLD Ferrari with period rebodies. There is NO comparison.

Why is there no comparison?

Because (idiots ) Jim can still go to the factory and buy Enzo SPARE PARTS, thus nothing is lost to the world (and who cares anyway because most of the production line are still puttering around), just like they could when the GTO was rebodied back in the 60's. You cannot get that 250 GT 2+2 back because it's not made anymore!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, it's just gone.

All old and original Ferraris have now reach classic/historic status and in their original form are interesting to us car buffs. The old painting is a good comparison that somebody raised.

Thus if you want to own a GTO/SWB Ferrari, make a replica using NON old Ferrari parts and nobody will complain. Cut up a cr@ppy 550 or 599 or something ... who cares, theres plenty of them to go around.

Yes it's your car, but are you really an old Ferrari enthusiast or not. Thinks about that before purchase and make the right decision.
Pete
ps: We can be absolutely sure that Jim is not going to create a 1967 F1 Ferrari single seater out of #0854 ... because that would mean the sacrifice of an old Ferrari. Yep it's worth more than a 250 GT 2+2 but it's just the same ...

 

There are shades of gray.

I love cars. Cars that were canibalized at one time are being loved (and valued) more today. There are people that love modern cars that may be canibalized. What will people think in 40 years? Who was the A***ole that destroyed a 412?


Enjoy and love life. I'm not going to get too wound up on either side of this age old argument.

 

I can't wait to see my former 330 2+2's next body.

 

Very much agree and I think another point must be made. There are some wonderful older cars that are great fun and are not huge money. Alfa's, Fiat Dino Spyders, MG's, TR 3's. Any one of them on the proper road sitting next to someone you Love is IMO what it's really about. I also agree that a 550 would make a great donor for a 250 GTO spyder body. Hey a tube frame SB Chevy hot rod would as well.

Strangely the first Ferrari I drove was a 750 Monza that had blown it's original engine and had it replaced with a 327 Chevy.
Now that was a serious bit of kit. I was 17 and couldn't scrape together the $2400. the guy wanted for it. That included the original engine which could have easily been rebuilt and put back but the owner preferred the Chevy as it made it a lot faster...

 

Amen Jim, My first Ferrari was 883GT. A 250 Ellena with an FIA cobra motor in it. There wasn't a 250 within a million miles that could keep up with it. And the conversion was done so nicely that it still used the original Ferrari mufflers and pipes. Was it a true 250 Ellena? Obviously not. But what's worse - converting it into a TR or having a Ford motor in it. If you aren't the owner, you can have an opinion but it won't count.

 

Here's the question. Take a Cobra replica that someone builds because they always loved Cobra's but cant afford an original.
Tube frame. Crate motor. Kit body. Nothing was destroyed to build it. They don't pretend it's anything but a replica. That seems fine to me. Same with a GT 40 replica. Take it a step further. Someone builds a GT 40 Replica to 1966 standards the same way. The FIA gives it papers, that say it's a replica but built to original standards. A Vintage Race Promoter wants to fill his grid and can't get originals to race so he invites FIA Papered Replica's. The Program clearly lists the car as a Replica.

I thinks that's fine as well.

What do you all think???

 

TERRY I'M WITH YOU 250 gte? no thanks. but with a gorgeous 250 tr body and a screeming exhaust , 6 webers sucking air thru those velocity stacks as i'm shifting into third at 7000 rpms... YEA MAN...if i want four seats i'll drive my lexus..

 

At SAAC conventions the real ones are parked right next to the replicas, I've yet to see it piss anyone off.

 

This battle of ideologies will probably never end in the exclusive clubby atmosphere of Ferrari ownership. There are the purists who are perfectly entitled to their views, viewing any rebodied Ferrari a blasphemous atrocity to humanity (although I find this view too rigid and taking the whole thing a wee bit too seriously). Some are in the middle, those ones who will tolerate a rebodied Ferrari as long as it is historically justified and documented. And there are those who fully enjoy "unofficial" rebodies for the sake of driving or experiencing the appearance of an original that is otherwise unobtainable.

At least this TR replica is blessed and finished, to what appears an extremely high level of standard, by a concours-level Ferrari aficionado and expert craftsman, using an actual Ferrari chassis and engine. I think it's beautiful and would enjoy seeing it on the road. There is always a buyer for something, and someone will buy this one, if not having done so already. If only 21 of the real TR 250s ever were made, I don't see the point in depriving the world the opportunity to enjoy a striking facsimile such as this one just to appease a few who are ideologically opposed to the idea.

 

Ditto my Friend.

It's funny that is one group of car lovers that do seem to get along with each other. I really enjoy being a member of that club and have great respect for all of it's members.

Best

 

Replica smeplica, with most owners locking their cars up so nobody ever sees them, the only cars at the track ten years from now will be replicas. How often do those on this board actually see a TR turn a wheel in anger at the track (which, by the way, was what they were intended for - not sleeping in garages) If the car is faithfully built, it won't be worth what the original was, but it will represent the marque nearly as well and serves as an "ambassador" for the real ones.

 

Good points. Who would risk one of the few TRs to be tracked at a vintage race, with wheel to wheel perils that could potentially total the cars? At 5 million a pop, I wouldn't take mine out there were I to have an original.

 

I think it's fine.

The only problem I have with any replica is what is sacrificed to create it ...
Pete