The official replica/re-creation thread

easy to understand. the owner of the replica wants the looks but not the price tag. that is whole point of a kit car or replica. the better the replica, the more it costs.

many people don't care about the sentimentality of keeping a car they would otherwise not want kept original and untouched if it can be upgraded in it's looks to mimic a multi-million dollar looking car --even if the attempt to do so is not perfectly mirroring the original that it attempts to copy. for many, that TR replica is far close enough in appearance. the ones who scoff at it on a chat forum will not be of any relevance when the owner of the TR replica is enjoying it.

many people are taking the issue of replicas far too seriously. ferraris are only cars to be enjoyed. if someone enjoys a replica of a ferrari, then that is not much different from someone enjoying a real Ferrari that is ugly.

there are plenty of contemporary/newer real Ferraris that are hideous yet highly regarded. for example, the Enzo is entirely an abomination to Ferrrari designs, yet it is worshipped. that newer one-off 612 P4/P5 rebody done to the Enzo is far improving upon the Enzo donor car. Glickenhaus did the Enzo a favor by having it's original looks obliterated. regardless of the fact that the car is rebody and not a replica is irrelevant as the original Enzo's coachwork is GONE.

therefore:

if an ugly real Ferrari is enjoyable to any given owner thereof, then they are entitled to this joy. it's a car for the owner.

if a replica Ferrari that attempts to mimic a beautiful ferrari is enjoyed by any given owner thereof, then they are entitled to this joy.

 

i seriously question anyone that staes that a replica is so "not right", it is easily spotted.

i am not attatcking marcel or others, but we must be realistic.

for the most part, all of the original ferrari racers have been restored/recreated/rebodied by now if they ever experienced the real ferrari racing experinece.

even if the chassis number is correct and original, a rebody doesn't matter - as most are rebodied to replicated their original form. yet, for some unknown reason, a similar car, based on a different chassis, but built using the same bodybuck, looks so out of proportion is a mystery to me.

most of the gto's you see in real life, aren't as they were originally built. most of the replica's are base doff of the expense to rebuild body bucks.

i don't understand the thinking.

i think we all must agree that there are VERY FEW original ferrari's from this vintage, especially racing cars. why can we say that this one is correct and that one not, when the same restoartion standards are applied - especially given chassis mods?

although not the same, why do you think some "common" ferrari buyer that had a microsoft background bought a 250 swb that was a former lord brockett car? it couldn't be the lordship history, but rather that it looked the part. when the car was proven fake, all value collapsed. even though history proves the car wasn't the real deal, do you think for a second that "experts" weren't consulted to verify that car was legit? and when i say "experts", i am not talking about free-lance people, i am talking about factory Ferrari people.

 

All you replica or "freedom people" are forgetting a very important thing: every time a replica is made a REAL Ferrari is lost.

Is that a good thing? ... ofcourse not if you are a Ferrari enthusiast.

We all need to look at the 8c and 6c Alfa Romeo of the 30's to see what the end result will be. There are models that were built that NO LONGER exist of those wonderful cars as the boring saloon models were converted into the more racy styles. That is NOT a good outcome at all.

Again in both cases we are NOT talking about GM or Ford or even FIAT production line products, we are talking about handbuilt cars that were made in very low volumes. Take the 330GT 2+2 America, I believe only 20 of those were originally made ... and yet amazingly some have been lost to replicas!!!!

60's Ferraris were not all race cars, Ferrari was setting out to make proper cars ... we need to look after those cars otherwise an important part of this companies history will be lost, just like those 6c and 8c Alfas have been lost.
Pete

 

Y'all, this car, like most of the rest of the replicas, was done years ago. I seriously doubt that there are many GTEs being cut apart for replica rebuild today...the prices are sufficiently high to discourage this practice...like most wrongs the market will eventually solve the problem. Now, for existing replicas, I see no reason why they should not be enjoyed. I don't think many buyers would try to pass any of them off as originals...but there are many folks who would enjoy the Mittyish thrill of driving the replica...

 

Clearly people restoring real GTOs have access to a different kind of a budget than people quickly turning a project GTE into a fake GTO trying to make a few bucks in the process. The cost of restoration of a real GTO can easily exceed the sale price of a fake and everyone must understand that it is completely impossible to mix a fake and a real thing. People restoring a GTO don't buy the cheapest panels banged on the cheap side of town. They go to master craftsmen and get things done right. They park their car next to another real car and don't give up until the patterns fit perfectly. The known replica builders usually base their work on photos - and they often have no idea of correct measures. It is like these cars were built on another planet!

They weren't, that is known for a fact.

And even if the Brocket fake was about how good the replicas get at their best, we must still remember that it has many flaws, looking at a photo you immediately recognize it as a fake and pointing out all its flaws would make a long list.

Making a Ferrari replica and trying to get it right is like making wine at home and trying to match the qualities of a real chateau: if you pass the test, it is because the people who tasted your wine know nothing about wine, not because of the high quality of your product.

 

I am certain there are many flaws with this car, but I think it would be a blast to own and drive...no idea about the asking price.


http://www.motorclassiccorp.com/CarDetail.cfm?ID=111

 

Looks like fun to me!

 

Yes, indeed there is.

I wish that nobody were building replicas of 308s on Pontiac Fiero chassis. The really well-made ones are going for prices approaching that of a genuine 308!

I still have mixed feelings about 250 GTO replicas on other 250 series cars, or the 288 re-bodies on 308s and 328s. But no one should ever re-body a Pontiac and label it as a Ferrari! If you want to make a Feiro look better, what's wrong with an ORIGINAL re-body? A Fiero is no Ferrari, not even a low-end one.

 

You guys do realise that the chassis is different between a 250GTE and a GTO (engine is moved back, etc.) don't you ... thus all they really want from the donor is the chassis tag (and the mechanicals) for that "its a real Ferrari" lie + registration.
Pete

 

Of course the closer a replica is to the original the more it costs. A fake posing as something it is not. Regardless though of the dollars spent on a fake, advertisements should not align the copying of a particular model to the asking price. Otherwise I could say that my 308 is a Ferrari and so is a 250GTO so the 300k I am asking for the 308 is cheap. In essence is a 250GTE with a body that looks like a TR worth 300k. In man hours yes but what is the next buyer really paying for ????

 

very well said

 

me too, because what is the result when you cut up a 308 GT4 to make it look like a 250 LM?

Do you end up with a 308 GT4 the way the factory intended it? No.
Do you end up with a 250LM the way the factort intended it? No.

So, what do end up with? Something that has roots that are genuine Ferrari, but that is about it. I can see no winners in this picture.

 

almost every original 250 GTO is rebodied in the 40+ years. Some have now body configurations which they never had in the sixties.
Some have new chassis, partly new chassis, complete new bodywork or partly, etc etc.
Glickenhaus told there was an original chassis up for sale, the car was restored in the past with a new chassis.

 

Here is a fine 250TR, complete with disk brakes and electric overdrive. Honestly, I must have mashed potatos between my ears to pay $300k+ for this.

Surely though some Texan will buy it and put it in the garage of his McMansion along with the moose heads hanging from the wall and oriental rugs on the garage floor. It is sure to impress the 4WD Lamborghini owners at Concorso Italiano 2008.
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[[In essence is a 250GTE with a body that looks like a TR worth 300k. In man hours yes but what is the next buyer really paying for ????]]

The cost of construction is irrelevant, as is the cost of the donor car. What determines market value is comparables, whether it's real estate, art or collector cars. An original body GTE is not even close to providing a comparable experience to a pontoon TR, even if the latter is a rebody. The markets are completely different. Someone buying a pontoon TR rebody isn't interested in stodgy gran turismo Ferrari coupe; he's interested in a 50's Ferrari racecar for the street with an iconic and beautiful body. The comparable, then, is either the real thing (less a discount for it not being the real thing and the resulting limitations on being able to show or race it at certain events) or other cars that will provide a comparable experience (i.e., an aluminum bodied C or D Type Jag replica; a real 289 AC Cobra; an Aston Martin DB2/4; etc.).

 

+1

It is not about being a poseur or trying to impress the neighbours. It is not about being 100% accurate with history either. It is the automotive equivalent of say the reenactment battles for the Civil war etc. Experiencing an Ersatz vintage Ferrari is the goal. With a few of the modern amenities.

In essence the same reasons people buy Ford GTs or Superformance Ford GT40. Unless you spot one in Connecticut we all know that they are reproduction/continuation/replicas.

 

+1

And the fact that anyone can do with a car whatever he wants. Even an orginal GTO can be chopped if the owner wants to.

 

He probably isn't interested in Ferrari's all together. What is a rebodied Ferrari in terms of Ferrari heritage? It is not a pontoon TR, it is not a Ferrari GT (anymore). People how want cars that look smashing and are big fun to drive, can fulfill that need with all sorts of cars. There is absolutly no need to destroy a perfectly good Ferrari to gain access to some unoriginal town racer. And sure, owners can do whatever they want with their cars. This is not about people wanting to limit the owner in the way he is using his possesion in the strictly legal sense of the word, but we sure can critize his choices.

 

when done right these recreations offer someone all the driving experiences of a 250 tr or gto for a fraction of the cost.
is this wrong ?
should these cars now only be allowed to the laurens, the matsudas or the wangs of this world or should other people get a look in too ?

take the man who has always loved the gto/tr ever since he first saw one.
these cars are so beyond the normal man these days - not even a lottery win would be enough to buy and keep one.
but a nut and bolt replica (which the car in question isnt quite) gives almost all the experiences without the massive outlay, this gives the man the opportunity to live the dream he has wanted for so very long.

i cant condone anyone doing this to a healthy example, but is it so bad to make a recreation gto or tr from a crashed 250/330 that would otherwise end up on the spare parts pile ?

 

really ???
i find the opposie to be true.

first and foremost cars are about driving not heritage.
id love a gto or tr - i love the way they look, sound, smell, feel, and most of all id want to feel the way they drive.
driving a good pontoon tr recreation will give all the same experiences behind the wheel as the real thing.

your missing the point.
ask a ferrari enthusiast what fcar theyd want if they could and many many would say tr/gto - thing is these cars are beyond most ppls means.
a good recreation offers these ppl the opportunity to experience the way a tr/gto drives.

sure we can.
but maybe your criticizing the wrong person ?
the man who buys the car hasnt played any part in its build.
he hasnt decided to take a 250gte and make it into something esle.

besides many of these are done on heavily crashed cars, is that a problem too ?

 

No we are not; the buyer is creating demand for replicas and therefore part of the process. He IS the end user, for crying out loud! And no, hardly any of these cars was crashed heavily. Get your facts right.

 

You got a lot to do: Fake hair, fake breasts, fake eyelashes, fake lips, fake watches, fake Gucci handbags, fake leather coats, fake kitchen counter tops, fake leather sofas, fake brick walls, fake marble columns, fake art on the wall, fake revival bands, fake MP3 songs the list is endless.

I fail to see how a GTO replica devalues the real thing because anybody who sees one on the street knows that it can't be the real thing. Unless you're at Cavallinos, Goodwood or Pebble Beach it simply can't be the real thing. Same thing as when you see the Mona Lisa outside the Louvre. It simply can't be real.

PS: Even a place like Goodwood allows replicas alongside the real deals. Now there is a situation where I would actually accept the devaluation argument, yet the Brits seem to be perfectly ok with it. Maybe we are setting the bar too high?

 

You can't really say that it is wrong. But it does exhibit certain inadequecies on part of the individual that goes out of his way to be and to do more than he can rightly justify. Personally, I would be embarrassed to walk into a room with a fake Rolex on my wrist, just as I would be embarrassed to be seen in a made up Ferrari race car. What is wrong with enjoying a wholesome Ferrari 2+2 or a Triumph TR3?

All replicas should (and probably will some day) be chopped to rebuild cars like these.
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+1

to the kid that sees the car in the street, he doesnt know the heritage, he doesnt care if its a genuine gto/tr all he sees is a damn cool car - it looks right, sounds right, goes right.
is that devaluing the real thing ? i mean would he get any greater pleasure about seeing the "real thing" drive past ?

as for replicas at goodwood - dont see the problem there either.
as long as theyre marked in programme/showplate as to what they really are then in my eyes its fine.




one last thing.
rob/kare - what would you do with a crashed 250gte, one thats beyond economical repair ???