The official replica/re-creation thread

Andreas,

I don't like fake hair or breasts either

I don't see the difference between this and altering a piece of artwork into something it is not in order to pass it off as something better - to me the issue is the same.

Regards,

Art S.

PS. Mods, have you considered stringing together all of the identical threads of this type to see if combined, they will be longer than the 0846 thread?

 

Do your homework. Key words: demand, supply, price elasticity of demand. When the supply goes up the prices come down. With 150 GTO replicas around some demand is definitely off the real cars which results in lower prices in auction.

 

im physically in tears here at this statement - its just too funny.

please be real, there is no way on gods earth that someone considering a GTO (currently $15M+) would be influenced by a $300k replica

 

A few comments about the artwork comparisons:

- Rebodying a GTE into a TR does not compare with adding a moustache to the Mona Lisa. 1. The Mona Lisa is a work of art. A Ferrari, beautiful as they are, is an automobile, an product of the industrial revolution, not a piece of art. 2. Most Ferraris (even the GTOs and definitely the GTEs) exist in many examples. There is only one Mona Lisa. The real comparison would be adding the moustache to a Mona Lisa reproduction/litho/print/poster. Go ahead, nobody will get upset.
- If you are altering the original Mona Lisa, you're not improving it, but simply destroying it. Not because it is so pretty, but because it is unique. That argument doesn't work for the GTE. The comparison would only work if you overpainted the Mona Lisa with a Rembrandt. There might be a point to that if you needed the patina of the canvas, but basically you are now commiting fraud. If fraud is the intent of the replica TR, then I'm all against it too.

People passing off replicas as the real thing are idiots. There I agree 100%. However from the many replica owners I met so far there was only one such idiot. Funny enough he was trying to pass off a Cobra replica as the real deal. It had an automatic transmission....

 

I own one. Crashed once, burned once, definitely beyond "economical repair" (whatever that means, really), and it is definitely going back together. I've seen people restore "lesser" cars that were worse - much worse. I have never understood why Fords and Fiats are worth restoring after they've spent 20 years in the woods but a small dent on a front fender of a Ferrari and it gets parted out. If you can't fix it, then store it. Someone more capable will fix it someday.

 

off topic but im pretty certain several cobras had auto - the 2 paxton supercharged cars (cosby and shelby) were autos as i recall.

 

the minute an insurance company write off a car and pay out the owner it becomes their property.
no they arent going to sit on the remains for 10yrs odd till it becomes economical to repair

besides a restoration can cost more than a cars value - add in accident damage too and you can go WAY above value.
especially if the title has bad history with it which it would after being written off.

 

Even here, in Siperian back bushes of Finland we have people for whom $15M is peanuts. If these persons go out to the market, they are not necessarily interested of the price tags; they are interested of what is available. They are not necessarily Ferrari experts so they might pick up a replica if one was available for a reasonable price. If not, they might go after the real thing (did I say peanuts?). I find it unbelivable that there are people who do not understand the simple concept of supply and demand.

I know several cases where people, who could easily afford real cars, have bought replicas. In these cases their demand was definitely taken off from the real cars and this affects prices. If you disagree you can always write a paper, the Nobel price is waiting for people who trash existing theories and come up with new ones.

 

Ever been to an insurance company? They either repair your car or then they pay you out and get the car. Then they sell it. Never seen an exception.

 

sorry but thats a load of rubbish.
anyone with the means who was considering spending $15M on a car would have to be a total moron to say "sod it i'll buy a replica instead"

oh and i understand supply and demand - you obviously dont.
an gto replica does NOT affect the supply and demand of a real gto - because they arent the same thing.
ppl interested in a real gto are either buying it because they feel its an investment, a status symbol or because theyre a ferrari fanatic (who else buys a $15m car ?) an unofficial replica would not interest them, if it did then they were never going to be a a genuine potential customer for the real thing and thus not affecting the supply and demand.

 

eh ???? thats basically what i said.
pls try reading whats said not what you think has been said.

(i used to work for an insurance company, so yes i know full well how they work)

 

Chaos and Tifosi12: Yes, Virginia, there was at least one Cobra w/ automatic trans; I took it in trade for a Ferrari, before anyone was building replicars. I was not impressed.

 

What did you mean with this then: "no they arent going to sit on the remains for 10yrs odd till it becomes economical to repair"? Hell no they are not going to sit on for 10 years. Who would even think that would be an option?

 

Anything you buy affects the demand for anything else you could buy, because you can't eat a cake and save it. It is sometimes called a pizza barometer; when people buy houses, they don't go out to eat. When real estate sales go down, restaurants do exceptionally well. Supply and demand, as simple as that. Pizzas and houses are not the same thing, yet there is a negative correlation in conjuncture.

 

i was stating they werent going to do that.

an insurance company with a wrecked car tries to get its money back (or as much as possible) and will normally try to sell the car - sometimes back to the original owner, sometimes to the trade and sometimes they simply send them to the crusher (really heavily damaged etc)

the point is who is going to buy a car thats going to cost twice its value to restore and will always have a bad history ?
surely its better that the car is turned into a recreation (and also releasing spare parts for those who need them) than we lose it for good ?

 

It is not much of a discussion but I fail to understand why anyone with a sincere love for the marque would not object to cutting up a Ferrari just to make it into something it is not.

Well, to be exact, cars are about basic transportation and I like to believe Ferrari's are a little bit more than that. Especially the vintage one's that are actually buildingblocks of Ferrari's history.

I am a sucker for a pontoon TR as well. I'd prefer a 330 LMB over a 250 GTO and there are even far less of those. I haven't the means to buy one nor will I ever have, so I'll just go forward in life not owning one. That's the thing about life: you can't always get what you want. And that's the end of it. Building a recreation simply is no alternative. If you think otherwise you are just fooling yourself and those that are clueless enough to think they are dealing with the real thing. Now, that is not the real problem (allthough I sympathize with the argument that replica's bring down the real thing to some extend), the real problem is that a genuine Ferrari is sacrificed to get to this result.

To me, it is not just about the car, the sum of it's parts. If it was, it would be a car, a means of transportation whether or not able to race. A Ferrari is more than that. It is not only what it is (a car) but also what it represents (whatever that may be). A genuine 250 GTE represents much more than a 250 GTE rebodied to make it look like something it is not.

If the wreckage can be built into a TR or a GTO it can be rebuilt to it's original specs and I'll always prefer that.

 

and if its not economical or viable, would you rather it was simply scrapped ?

 

wouldn't really matter to me. A 250 GTE that is made into a TR recreation has seized to exist just like a 250 GTE that is scrapped all together.

 

I might. I pay nothing for the spare time spent in my garage, so the cash register isn't ticking. I've seen an Ford having been fished out of a swamp having been restored on a shoe string budget, so it is not that far fetched. Recreations claimed offering spare parts for the rest of us is also a delusion: in real life the replicas eat up their share of rare spare parts and make living with an original car even harder. Now how many GTE trunk lids or Daytona roofs do you need?

 

seems a little selfish.
if its done your way nothing exists, at least if a recreation is made then an actual car exists for ppl to see, drive and for kids to gawp at

 

And, of course, this thread will go on – forever, ad nauseum.

People will voice their opinions, BUT, one fact remains – individuals will continue to do AS THEY WISH with their own cars – PERIOD.

I hear constant talk about value/devalue/loss of investment, etc but a fact remains: NOBODY can make another person do to a car other than as he wishes. If somebody decides to rebody a GTE into a Testarossa/GTO/California or whatever (maybe even a non-Ferrari) and they can afford it, it will happen. And nobody can stop them.

I happen to really love my GTC – I’ve had it for 32 years and I enjoy it immensely, having put well over 100,000 miles on it. My all time favorite car however, is the short wheelbase, covered headlight California Spider. Could I afford it, would I rebody the GTC to a California? In a heartbeat!! Would the car be devalued? Maybe, maybe not? Would I enjoy driving it top-down virtually all year in South Carolina? Count on it.

Alternate scenario – OK, the California rebody is too costly for me personally. Convert the GTC to a GTS?? Now there’s an idea and a justly affordable one.

To each his/her own. Drive your cars, enjoy them. You like the way it looks, keep it that way. A decision to change it is yours and yours alone.

Understand that I have NEVER encouraged anyone to rebody a car. But if a decision is made to do so, so be it.

Bob Z.

 

I'd love a well done replica TR or GTO or SWB. The only issue is the $300K + price tags, which I'm just not willing to spend (but others will be willing, so it's probably the right price). For me, it's all about the driving experience, since I can't afford the truly special Ferraris anyways. However, I might think differently about the subject if I could afford them.

IMHO, at least 90% of all Ferraris are just cars, with little historical significance. It's the remaining 10% of largely unobtainable cars that makes the marque special.

 

The last thing I am going to say about this.

I really wish people would stop relating this replica thing to value, etc. That simply shows you are NOT an old car enthusiast but an accountant and view old Ferraris as investments. And yes creating a replica is cheaper and unfortunately probably increases the chance of making some cash ... yep you really are a old car enthusiasts if this is what motivates you, NOT!

Many people through out the world collect, restore and love weird man made objects, and we are supposed to be a group of people that have a little extra time for old Ferraris. As Kare said, I just cannot understand how anybody can really truly be an old Ferrari enthusiast and take a grinder to it with the purpose of destroying it, sorry just cannot.

Yes I admire the special Ferraris but I do not need to drive one, I do not need to own one so bad that I would destroy another "interesting product of the Ferrari factory", especially those early years when every single car made was making that companies history.

The 250GT 2+2 was a very important car in Ferraris history and deserves far more than ... holy **** I can cut that piece of cr@p up and make into something that "I personally" prefer.

I'm restoring an Alfa Romeo 1750 GTV. I have just about rebuilt the whole shell , was this economically viable?, heck no ... should I have bought a better one?, probably. My wife many times has asked me why I do not just go and buy a reasonable one and push this one into the ground ... her viewpoint is I would be out driving it buy now then. She has a good point, but we are not talking about rational things here. I started this restoration when I was 18, I have put a lot of great work into this car and now that I am nearing the end of the shell restoration ... yes 20 years later (I've been busy with life, etc.) it will be well worth while to ME. When I hopefully win that concours trophy I will be on top of the world. When I do that first track day and drift her for the first time I will be smiling more than anybody else can possibly smile. Trips to explore the country side will take on much deeper meaning to me ... I cannot wait .

I may be a low level classic car enthusiast to many of you, but we all share that involvement with these metal and rubber objects ... even enthusiasts with miles deeper pockets than me, like Jim, still share that same passion.

Again I cannot see "cutting up to purposely destroy" and interesting old car as part of our hobby ... just cannot. If you do not like the 250GT don't buy it, leave it for the thousands of other enthusiasts that will happily spend 10+ years of their life restoring her to proper and as original as possible condition. As Jim said get out there and try as many other classic cars as you can and you might find a car within your range that does give you as much enjoyment as a TR or GTO replica would have ... without having to sacrifice another. You will be surprised, even some British cars are fun on the right day ... between breakdowns
Pete