That can´be used as an excuse. It´s all up to us. Personally I think that you let things go too far. But don´t worry, there´s nothing you can do now that Pandora´s box is open, I suppose that we have to wait till next year to get back some civilization.
LOL I can't win. Illusions of grandeur on one side and letting things go too far on the other. Just for the record: There are six moderators on the racing forum. You can always ask any of the other 5 to look at a post you think should get censored etc. OTOH if you think I'm too heavy handed let the others or Rob know and we'll take it from there.
Yes, as I´ve said, you can´t win now, because people got used to say whatever they want so they get confused when you suddenly appear to moderate. Things like 355 made were very common here lately, so why did you "censored" this one? Don´t worry, relax and watch the fireworks.
I don't think any of us were labelling Schumacher's learning of the language as anything other than what it was, his recognizing of a potential liability that could harm his competitiveness. I don't see it as a weakness, in fact I think it is admirable of him to recognize the need for being able to communicate in the team's native tongue. My point is that TifosiRon was trying to spin Schumacher's Italian into some sort of romantic (and revisionistic) notion of him trying to integrate himself into the team out of sheer magnanimousness. That is not the case for this, nor was anything else Schumacher did. Everything Schumacher did, his fitness training, his late nights at the shop, his language skills etc, was for one reason, and one reason only, to put himself in a better position to win. Nothing wrong with that and nothing critical in saying it. This is what he did and what any driver should do if he wants to win. However some here think that speaking of Schumacher in anything other than hallowed tones is tantamount to heresy. I don't subscribe to that belief. By the way, there is an interesting piece in Autosport about driver insecurity. In the article, Renault team members claim that Alonso's only weakness was his refusal to accept that a teammate could be faster than him in the same car and, when it would occur, he became paranoid. The same article quotes Rubens as saying he was astonished to find out how insecure Michael Schumacher could be when Rubens would outpace him. The article goes on tosay that this trait is common amongst the very best in the sport, this insecurity when challenged, even citing Senna as possessing it. Of course the main difference is that most champion drivers still drove alongside competitive drivers in equal cars...most
I don't tolerate it when people discredit a known story. You can love/hate MS/Ferrari/Massa/Alonso as much as you like. No problem. But don't mess with history. I would have let this one go as well, but it was now the 3rd time in a short row that 355 discredited a known fact just because it didn't suit his arguments. Whether MS learned Italian to have the upper hand against Rubens I can't say. That is just speculation, but you can't just disregard the date when he started to learn that.
Good point. I read about it in both biographies, the one of MS as well as in the one about Senna. You would think these guys are 100% sure of themselves, particularly after winning one title, yet both were plagued by insecurities.
Fact is that Michael won more WDC than anyone but still some in here discredit him and say he was not the greatest. Fact is the McCheaters cheated but still some in here say it was Ferraris fault because of Stepney Fact is Alonso is a POS and yet here on a Ferrari site some want him to drive for Ferrari even when his past record shows that he wants #1 status or he destroys the team. Fact is that what I said was on the tele here in Canada and because you did not see it makes me wrong. Thats ok I can accept that as you hold all the cards.
You don't get it, do you? MS won the most titles. Fact. Nobody can argue with that. Who is the greatest driver is an opinion, not a fact. Because nobody ever defined "greatest driver". It could be done by number of WDCs or it could be done by anthing else.
How do you dispute a driver who won almost twice as many races lifetime than his closest competitor. Its like saying that Tiger woods is not the greatest golfer ever or Wayne Gretzky is not the greatest hockey player ever.
actually, i don't understand whats the fuss all about. Michael did what he thought was the best, and that what makes him stand out. he knew Rubens spoke Italian, and felt that maybe that Rubens might have a slight advantage, so he took up Italian. thats typical Michael....take advantage at every angle. he didn't want to lose out one bit. so whats the big deal here actually?
I don't actually dispute it, because I think too that MS is the greatest F1 driver ever. But that is not a fact, but only an opinion. How could you compare a modern F1 champion with a Fangio? MS himself said that he would have never driven those cars because it was too dangerous (can't blame him for that). So does that then make Fangio a greater champion because MS would have forfaited? We can't say. I don't know anything about Golf or Hockey (I recognize the names though) so no comments. My feeling is similar arguments work there as well and you can't compare those individuals to their historic competitors.
By your own definition Tiger Woods is not the greatest golfer ever - he is still way behind Jack Nicklaus in the number majors won.
i agree with Andreas on this. a greatest can be measured by most poles, most fastest laps, most overtaking, best overtakings, most WDC, best skills in the rain, etc, etc. a footballer can be considered the greatest with best crosses, most goals, best tackles, etc. it's a personal opinion
Actually greatest F1 driver is measured in races participated. Therefore Ricardo Patrese wins. I'm sure we can all agree on that...
Well, for one thing Tiger Woods has not yet won more tournaments or Masters than any other golfer. Jimmy Clark won fewer races than Nigel Mansell, do you think Mansell is a better driver? Senna and Clark died in their prime, who knows how many GPs they would have won or how many titles. In fact, it is very likely that Schumacher would have not won as many races or titles as he did had Senna lived. Who is the greatest driver ever is a matter of opinion. Statistics in and of themselves only tell a part of the story. Further discussion requires actual knowledge of the drivers and the sport, I can see why you wish to avoid that.
+1 Some here think that any discussion of Schumacher that does not automatically deify him is tantamount to a hatred of Ferrari.
But it has been writen in many tabloids that MS is the greatest driver in the history of F1 so then it must be fact no? Just as it was reported in a couple of tabloids that he learned Italian just because Rubens came to Ferrari. Anyway thats getting far away from what this thread is about and it looks like many (70%) do not want Alonshole in a Ferrari next year. This is more than likely a very close comparison to the real world opinion. IMO Ferrari would be making a HUGE mistake to bring this guy on board and I will say again that I will not be pulling for Ferrari if they make such a big blunder.
Easy now please. Let's all take a deep breath and relax for a moment. There is no point in going after each other all the time. I think we all made our points ad nauseam. Let's move on.
No one is disupting the fact that he won more GPs than anyone else. The rest is a matter of opinion Please show your evidence that someone here blames Ferrari. Provide the quote please. Or is this another one of your insipid claims that is unsubstantiated, i.e. Ferrari ownership? What a ridiculous statement. So some of us respect Alonso's driving ability. So what? The only one here who has outright stated that he will no longer support Ferrari if they sign a particular driver is YOU. The rest of us want Ferrari to win, apparently you don't. You have already slandered their current #1 driver and now you slander those of us who wouldn't mind a 2X WDC on the team. You are no Ferrari fan, I don't know why you are even here. Oh, by the way, Schumacher also demanded #1 status. yet another history lesson for the ignorant.
True but you bring him up at every turn of evey thread. It like your obsessed with your dislike for him. Again you should remember that this is a FERRARI site.
Traitor. I expect as much from the guy who was slandering Ferrari's current #1 driver 4 races into his career. Go away, the Tifosi don't need fair weather fans. Apparently only ONE of us belongs here. Go away, we don't need you and we don't want you.
Interesting question. I doubt it though because I think people on here are biased. It would be interesting to see a global popularity comparison. Alonso is not doing well though. German and Swiss newspapers don't shed a good light on him and in a recent poll amongst the Swiss, they were rooting for Hamilton and Kimi as champions. That is somewhat interesting because the Swiss don't have a stake in this (no drivers, no GP). Alonso seems to have isolated himself somewhat with his behavior in Stepneygate.
