The official replica/re-creation thread

that would be a safe guess...

 

+1

Also often photography has a big influence: the angle the car was shot and the lens used can easily distort things for better or worse

That's why I'm amused when some "experts" state that the hood is too long or not long enough in relation to the rest of the car. Angle your shot, change the setting on the zoom and voila a short hood becomes elongated and vice versa.

 

Careful, PSK, you incorrectly interpret the meaning. I disagree - I am a diehard Alfisti (and admirer of engineers Jano and Chiti) and feel that putting a TRC replica body on an Alfa is dissing the Alfa. I would rather see a spider restored personally, but recognize there is a subset of people who have fun building their own cars.

I also agree that the 33 Stradale is the ultimate - too bad I can't fit.

best,
rt

 

I love Alfas and their passion and history........but they only won the WSC after Ferrari and Matra had pulled out........and the 158/159 was a pre-war design that had been beaten in 1939 by M-B and would have been beaten by the first purpose-built rival (Ferrari) in 1952 if they hadn't pulled out of F1.

Going back to my first post in this thread.........there are quite a few TR250s and not that many GTEs, so I wouldn't do that; but I totally sympathise with what Chris Rea wanted to do in building his 'sharknose'.

I wish one of the 1958 F1 246s had survived (Hawthorn wanted to buy his winning car, but Ferrari wouldn't sell, apparently out of spite that Hawthorn had retired, after being misinformed by the Ferrari team manager that Hawthorn was continuing in 1959), but all the cars were rebuilt for 1959, and then the mechanical parts used in new chassis for 1960. Some spare engines survived but were built into two additional cars by Graypaul, so none are available.

So if I could, to recreate a 1958-type 246/F1, I'd happily sacrifice one of the many surviving Fiat Dinos.........any of you wealthy guys out there want to back me? ;-) Chassis from Jim Stokes, just down the road from me, body from Rod Jolley in Lymington, probably even get a Goodwood Revival invite................


Paul M

 

poor example.

whilst i applaude the efforts of Tom S im pretty sure ive heard of him breaking up what you restore or die crowd would probably have called viable restoration projects. (and what any realist would have called wrecks )

 

Where are these "experts"? It seems you are making an example to prove your point...

 

Just browse through this thread. Some candidates are on here. Also the "Replicas thread" in OT is full of the self proclaimed experts.

Would be fun if somebody once posts a new pic of an original car claiming it to be a good rebody...

 

, understood BUT lets face it many thousands of Spiders were made. Anyway to create a replica 4 cylinder Ferrari ... well nobody is going to be able to get that engine from a Ferrari are they, thus he has to look at another marque ... Alfa Romeo is a good choice, better than Nissan or Toyota, etc.

Macca,

Yeah, yeah, yeah whatever. The early 50's 4 cylinder Ferrari wins were only because there was NO opposition, as soon as Mercedes came along they got whipped completely, so lets not start this debate. Basically Italians had the passion but their execution sncked, and did really until the Italians were almost removed from the Ferrari team in the mid-90s and replaced by "others". As most people say the win rate of WDC and WCC of the Ferrari F1 team is pretty low considering they have been in the game since the very begining ... and have their own factory, etc. Only in the last 20 years has the British teams built equivalent infrastructure. I think Renault have the highest competing versus win rate ... maybe not, but it is definitely not Ferrari.

Recreating a 246/F1 ... I guess the the Dino engine is close enough but it's not the same engine, bit like making a 500TRC with an Alfa Romeo engine .

I also thought that the 246 with the 3 litre v12 that once had the Morris Minor bodywork was a genuine 246 chassis ... maybe it would be better to put one of those genuine v6 engines back in it?
Pete

 

Point is?

Every car is restorable ... again we agreed earlier that we should not be looking at this hobby based on potential profits made. Wrecked Ferraris are only wrecks by people that want to make a profit post restoration ... is that really what being a Ferrari fan is about?

Pete

 

Umm...Ferrari had Maserati, Gordini and a load of British teams to beat, and beat them by being better in 1952 & '53; MB raised the bar in '54 and the Squalo Ferrari was not enough of an advance on the 625, though Hawthorn beat the MBs in one at Barcelona in '54. If MB had competed in '56, if Ascari hadn't died, etc, etc..........who knows.

[/QUOTE] Recreating a 246/F1 ... I guess the the Dino engine is close enough but it's not the same engine, bit like making a 500TRC with an Alfa Romeo engine .

I also thought that the 246 with the 3 litre v12 that once had the Morris Minor bodywork was a genuine 246 chassis ... maybe it would be better to put one of those genuine v6 engines back in it?
Pete[/QUOTE]

The Fiat Dino engine IS the same as in the F1 Ferrari Dino.........4-cams and all; and the 1960 car that had a TR engine in it from late 1960 does now have an original V6 in it, which the owner fitted so as to be eligible for the Monaco Historic GP.

There was a kitcar in the 1990s called the SD500, looked like a Ferrari 500 Mondial but with Alfa mechanicals; well-made, but unsuccessful, maybe due to cost.

Paul M

 

Okay very weak opposition.

No it's not. I will scan a photo and it looks nothing like it. Now ofcourse maybe they redesigned the cam covers etc. but I am pretty sure it as close as the 312 F1 engines is to the BB, ie. concept only.
[EDIT:] Maybe I am wrong because it appears the internal dimensions are the same, but it sure looks miles different. Here is the best I could find of a picture in 5 minutes at work: http://jbbassibey.free.fr/ferrrari%20246%20dino%20transparent%20-2.jpg
I have a much better one in a book at home, and I still believe there was a massive redesign. F1 engine has alloy block, but then so did the 206.[/EDIT]

This proves that "some" people who want replicas want the "it actually sort of still is a Ferrari" instead of it drives exactly like a Mondial did, and thus it is NOT the driving experience they are after but the pose, as Rob has been saying.
Pete

 

I like the car, I think its a bargin considering the cost of such a build and whats done is done.

P.

 

+1

 

This sound just like "I was just following orders".

 

sorry but it sounds NOTHING like that.
to me it simply looks like a man expressing his own opinion.

 

There are clearly impassioned people here with an interest in Ferraris.



As to those people who use donor cars.

They DO have a RIGHT to do it.


I will defend MY right, YOUR rights and THEIR rights. Will you?


There are a lot of belittling attacks going on. Opinions may be expressed, by those not wishing to recognize or defend rights, without the attacks.

 

Yes, we know : they DO have a RIGHT to destroy it...

 

IMO it looks great and I bet its a blast to drive and there's no sense is whining about something someone did to their own car. You dont like it, who kare's?

 

It appears that your post is an attack in itself by suggesting that those who oppose the destruction of real Ferraris as fodder for fakes are somehow against personal property rights. If you really think that that is what this thread is about, then I respectfully suggest that you are missing the point. I believe the argument of the folks that you describe as being against personal property rights are merely saying "just because you CAN turn a real Ferrari into a fake, doesn't mean you SHOULD." There is obviously passion on both sides of the argument. For me, the question of economics - when is a GTE is too far gone for restoration to make financial sense - isn't really a factor, either; and there are plenty of guys over at tomyang.net who would agree. If you love the car enough, "too far gone" doesn't come into play.

 

While not wishing to get drawn into this as I know it goes nowhere. I do believe that they view their cars as creations that they take pride in.

I will remain steadfast that it is a my, your and their RIGHT PERIOD

 

Some times you cant win either way, save the car out of love or break it up because it makes financial sense. People will have something negative to say no matter what choice is made. I get flack over restoring my 308, doesnt make financial sense they say but if I cut it up or made a 288 out of it I would just get a different group of nay sayers on my butt. In this case it sounds like the donor car was very nice which does make the decision harder to swallow but its done and thats life.

 

wow, if this has become the criteria for which cars get cut up then God help us all who give a crap about real vintage Ferraris, even the lowly 2+2.

 

If they view their cars as "creations", as you say, explain me why most of Replica's owners don't want to open the hood of their cars and/or never give the s/n ??

You know the reply : they are so happy that people believe that theirs cars are real, that's all...

 

Once you understand and accept that it is a right you may stop attacking it. You can't really say "Yeah its a right but they shouldn't have it."

Nuff said.

 

OK : you have the right of DESTROY a Ferrari, and you are proud of this. Congratulations !!!