What should Ferrari's penalty be?

McLaren may have been given the stuff, but they still used it in their testing... If HP was given some of IBM's mainframe technology and they tested it, you can bet IBM would own HP and there would be people having permanent accidents so I don't understand how any logic to the contrary is possible. Either way it's illegal.

 

if McLaren is so great why don't they have their own blog? Why don't they has as many WDC and WCC's as Ferrari does, why is Mercedes an old man's car, and why does consumer reports say that Mercedes are the worst cars for reliability, all black circles?? Fact of the matter is that Mercedes is having a good year but they don't have many of these, and so once in a while us Ferrari people have to deal with the losers of the planet for a year while we get back on track for a nice long run of championships... It would seem after this year that McLarens is looking for a nice long dry spell again, especially after Fonzo joins up with Ferrari... Next year McLaren won't be a contender as Beryllium is out lawed and that is why allows them to run a longer stroke and less bore, therefore giving them more torque at less RPM.. Next year, that advantage which has won them many races this year, is gone forever!

 

McLaren did not have to accept the dossier, nor did they have to look at it, and especially they did not have to use it. It did not become a crime until McLaren personnel accepted the document. By accepting the dossier, they completed the theft of propriatory information. What that means is they are guilty of stealing.

What is missing from your concept is the words "accessory" and "co-conspirator". If only Coughlin had the material and it never got beyond his curiosity, then you might have a point. But that's not what happened. McLaren got off pretty easily, a ban from 2008 was also considered. The $100 million is probably closer to $50 million.

No question Alonso got off easy.

 

I think they penalized themselves enough by looking like idiots sliding around the track then having to change putting both of them at the back of the pack rendering their qualifying times irrelevant. I am surprised Ferrari didn't complain they were sabotaged for "not getting the memo" and that they should have been able to rejoin the field back in their 3rd and 4th places...

 

There were rumors that Stepney was paid a million lbs. Then the police got involved and all the records were sealed. We'll have to wait and see when the trial starts and/or the records are released.

 

Not only do I think you have poor hearing, your reading skills may be suspect as well. The entire scandal did not begin when the copy shop blew the whistle on Coughlan, Ferrari had been suspicious of Stepney for a while. When Stepney was arrested the reports from all sources indicated he was paid a million pounds, then the police sealed the reports. Seeing as the documents went straight to McLaren, and seeing that a million pounds isnt pocket change, its pretty easy to assume who paid Stepney that kind of money, and it wasnt Coughlan. Stealing documents of that magnitude is theft under the laws of any free country on the planet. Paying for and recieving property you know to be stolen generally carries the same criminal charges as for the thief who stole it. Knowing the people you work for are working with stolen secret material and being a part of it is just about equally criminal. Stepney and Coughlan will most likely recieve prison time, unless they can wiggle out of it with good lawyers. Maybe if you didnt suffer from Cranial Recalitis and Myopia, your veiw for your beloved McDaimler with Alzhole and company would change.

And your right, comparing my stupid car to a 780 page document thats worth over a million pounds sterling is kind of silly. But its still theft and its still recieving stolen property. If this had taken place in the US the FBI would have become involved and Stepney would be up on federal charges of industrial espionage and corporate theft, as would Coughlan and other higher ups at McLaren. Also, once the property value exceeds $5500, the penalties are the same. So my 308 or a 780 page Ferrari top secret document, either one could land you 20 years in federal prison. Not aknowledging an email hardly compares.

 

I read a LOT about this case but haven't come across this anywhere.

Again, can you post a link or mention a source?

I'm not trying to defend McLaren (I think they should be thrown out of the WDC 2007) and Stepney should be behind bars. But I have never seen a statement that he actually got money, let alone one million for it.

It wouldn't even make sense: Stepney is a multi millionaire anyhow (I remember worth somewhere around 10 mio USD). He was paid about a million by Ferrari per year. He didn't do it because of money, but because he was disgruntled over not getting Brawn's job. His other motive was to jump ship to Honda together with Coughlan.

Could it be that you're confusing his salary (1 mio) from Ferrari with a bribe from McLaren?

 

My hope is that Stepney, Coughlan and Dennis have to share a cell for the next 20 years. Menage a trois F1 style.

It would have been a benefit to Ferrari to read their emails at Fuji and been on super wets.

 

Reports say it wasn't read until 7 minutes after the race started. Maybe SF didn't want to read it because they knew what was going to be in the email so they didn't open it. This is speculation.

Now they have a system of both email and written notification with a signature.

 

The FIA issued a statement that it is sorry Ferrari did not receive its edict about the rain tires and will try harder in the future to make sure Ferrari is satisfied with it's performance.
As a result, Mclaren will lose all WDC points for the race.

 

lol

 

Agreed - but this is not F specific. Practically all modern auto's are poseur-mobiles, from the cheapest to the most expensive.
In fact, poseur is at the core of practically all of modern society.

The latest is that RD hacked F's email system, so it's Mcl who should be penalized



>don't try and tell me Mazza pitting near the end of the race wasn't also in violation of the rules about "team orders".[/QUOTE]

Given the points differential it was a silly decision. Kimi won't take, nor does he really deserve, the WDC.
Unless LH DNF's, I hope Kimi DNF's so that Massa will be free to race again.

But, at least in this case, team orders resulted in the best action of the season.

 

ROTFL

Exactly.

Except the McCheater drivers should have all their points taken away for the whole season too.

 

Your opinion, and not one based on fact. What proof do you have that this situation is BS or "a lie"?

None of us were there and had the opportunity to review the facts as did the FIA and the stewards. Every team has the right to review this information, and I would believe there is one team on the grid that would love to file a protest against Ferrari. If none do, then I would definetely not agree with your assessment.

 

Massa says tyre confusion 'unacceptable'

By Jonathan Noble and Pablo Elizalde Sunday, September 30th 2007, 10:19 GMT


Felipe Massa says it is "unacceptable" that his Ferrari team were not informed in time that they were forced to start the Japanese Grand Prix with extreme weather tyres.

Both Massa and teammate Kimi Raikkonen had to pit at the start of the race, when the safety car was still on track, after choosing the intermediate tyre option without knowing the FIA had asked teams to put the extreme weather tyres on.

Ferrari said after the race that the e-mail informing them about the new rule arrived after the event had already started.

The Maranello squad's drivers had to pit in order to avoid being black-flagged, Ferrari said, dropping down to the bottom of the field.

Massa, who finished in sixth place, said it was unfair that his team were not informed in time.

"We together with the team decided. I went to the grid with heavy rain and Kimi went to the standard. And he said it was okay to start on the standard," Massa told reporters.

"Then the rain was stopping when we were on the grid, so we took the decision to start on the standard, which is intermediates for both cars. And especially for me, to win the championship was if some miracle happened. I prefer to risk and if it was fine then maybe I still had a chance to fight (for the title).

"But the biggest problem is that he was not permitted to start on intermediates and the Ferrari was not informed. So that was the biggest mistake we had. If you have the information that everyone has to start on the extreme and not to start on standards - we were not informed.

"It's unacceptable because every team has to be informed. We weren't and now we are investigating what happened and why it happened because this is not fair."

The Brazilian admitted, however, that Ferrari had made a mistake with their tyre choice, and reckons the intermediates were not the way to go.

"No, because when we went out it was raining heavy - so it was not possible," he said. "When we leave the grid it was possible, but then after it was raining heavy. I spun after two laps."

The Ferrari driver defended his team despite the error, and said even tactical mastermind Ross Brawn could have made that mistake.

"I had Brawn and we made mistakes in the past. In conditions like that it's difficult to make the right decisions, so it's not down to Brawn. We are a good team, we worked in the right direction, but it was difficult to find the right decision every time."

 

are all configured differently.. some update every minute some update every 15 minutes.. it all depends on the companies it policy.. There is a good chance Ferrari is correct and the header in the email will show the truth. For the McLaren fans here in doubt thank god you are all to dumb to know what u r talking about. But then again the rest of us already knew that.

 

The FIA apologized because the email headers showed Ferrari to be right..

 

That would give a whole new meaning to "pit stop"

 

Are you for real......People are trying to explain and the FIA have explained.....try listening doc.

 

this section has been full of anti-Ferrari trolls for ages, why worry about them, they're just poor slobs with no life

Andreas is very liberal with his modding and let's a lot of people have their say even if it is totally against what he believes which says a lot for the guy.

but I agree that there are a getting to be a lot of anti-Ferrari sentiment here over the last 6 months with the McLarengate affair and other un-noteworthy incidents happening on the track getting blown out of proportion.

Alonso has been unfairly positioned as the evil gnome and LH has been exonerated from even the slightest misdemeanors and been given preferential treatment the whole year, saw him at the Melb GP for the first time, thought he was quick straight out of the box but wondered how someone like Mark Webber might have done if given the same opportunity in a class car, or Kubica, or Heikki, or Heidfeld (not Fisi, he's had his run in the Renault when it was hot)