Machette On SpeedTV: McLaren Drivers Should Have Been Thrown Out

Great, looks like we're not moving on from this yet...

 

I agree with him. Especially Alonso.

 

Although I think it would be bad for the series I feel that they should have been penalized along with their team. If McLaren as a whole benefited from the Ferrari documents, so did the drivers.

 

Lets play the game differently. How about they weren't granted immunity, and therefore didn't testify. The case is significantly weakened against McLaren and they might still be participating in the constructors championship.

 

Moot.

The baby was cut in half. McCheaters got nailed. The drivers walked because the fans and sponsors wanted to see them race.

Life isn't fair. It's about giving the appearance of being fair and at the same time keeping the money rolling in. Without the appearance of being fair it would hurt the cash flow.

Matchett's is a mechanic with principals. Whole different mindset from a F1 exec. Sorry, but that's the way it is.

 

Question: Why are people still talking about the documents? The first ruling by the FIA didn't deem it worthy to be punished.

The second ruling, with the new evidence, showed that information (from conversation) passed from Stepney to Coughlan to de la Rosa to Alonso. It didn't have anything to do with the documents. What don't I understand?

 

Well if you didn't so far you never will. Take Vodafone hat off. Get out of your McCheater shirt. Now take off the silver mirror shades and take a closer look.

 

You're pathetic.

 

All the info discussed in the conversations was info gathered from the documents. Not too hard to understand.

 

but hes right.

 

Was it? I thought Stepney had sent most of that information via email before documents had passed hands.

 

He could have responded with a well reasoned post - he didn't. I'm not surprised you approved of his methods.

 

I haven't followed it close enough to answer that. I'm sure other members here can. But whether it was from email or the physical documents, its still illegally obtained info.

 

Can someone answer this?

I don't disagree. But it would be the biggest case of selective enforcement and the biggest punishment ever handed down for something which every team does (talk).

 

You know opinions are like arseholes. We all have one but we don't have to share them.

 

FYI, you're now ignored.

 

OMG how am I going to fall asleep now?

 

Yes they talk but they don't give up secrets from highly confidential information. What i was trying to say was whether Alonso and De la Rosa physically saw the documents, or got information from the confidential documents through email, they are both obtained illegally and deserve punishment.

 

Really? The most highly confidential stuff is stuff that can't be conveyed within conversation. Actual design information. Manufacturing information. Numbers and figures, so it can be replicated. That sort of stuff which was in the documents. The FIA decided during the first ruling that the information hadn't proliferated within the McLaren organization.

I agree. If the stuff from the documents did make into the hands of the drivers that's enough to severely punish the team. What if the source of the information wasn't the documents though (ie: through conversation, which happens all the time in F1)?

 

Bernie wants Lewis to win the championship really bad - it is good business & PR for F1 if he wins.
Brings the English fans back in to the show along with all their euros.

So that is why the McC drivers got a free pass IMO.

Ferrari got the WCC on a silver platter- Bernie gets Lewis's WDC on a silver platter to play up.

I've found this season to be grossly orchestrated even before the Stepheygate.

 

I would rather Kimi's first champion be without the asterisk. So I'm kinda glad they didn't get thrown out. Ferrari takes the cash, Mclaren loses pride and money.

 

Thank you very much , Sir. I have been saying it for some time now.
Please explain it if you can to the few people in here, who seem to not understand(or pretend to not understand), why is it so important financially, for Bernie, lewis to win and what is the huge role of the general public of F1 in the affair.I have given up. Maybe it is my English, or whatever.

 

I personally think the FIA makes up rules as it goes along - they adjust the punishments they give out to be more harsh to the WDC/WCC leaders and less so to those behind. I submit a prime example of this is that the FIA did nothing regarding the Toyota theft incident, and that incident was MUCH more damning than the McLaren one. But Toyota was not in a position to challenge for the title, so they were let off easy.

My beef with the FIA fiddling with the WDC/WCC competition is that they are NOT supposed to have anything to do with the commercial aspects of the sport. That Max tries to fiddle with that part is outrageous. I personally think its silly and a very slippery slope that the FIA said that use does not need to be proven to face a penalty, and that the assumption of intent is enough to convict. I would point to this weekend as an example... Ferrari says "we did not get the notice". Ron Dennis could say the same "Oh I was never told we had the documents". Is it a valid excuse? If the answer is no, then I think all kinds of things could be justified as penalties.

As a further example, is there any rhyme or reason to the FIA's penalties in general? Last year when Alonso is running away with the WCC/WDC titles, suddenly they decide the mass damper system is illegal? But the FIA KNEW about it and it had been deemed legal before. How is that fair? Additionally, Alonso's 10-grid-spot penalty? Where is that written or where is the precedent? This weekend, Kubicas penalty? Why? Why was he the only one subject to it? Is it not a bias from the FIA?

I really don't think the FIA is out to help Ferrari or hurt them. Neither are they out to help or hurt McLaren. But I do think Max DOES absolutely fiddle with the championship to try to keep it interesting. Sometimes it falls in Ferraris favor (or McLarens favor), sometimes it does not. That is unfair when companies spend hundreds of millions on what they think is a level playing field. Who is Max to tell Renault that their hundreds of millions are nothing compared to his whim to deem mass dampers illegal? Ferrari has been on the winning side of such lashings from the FIA (i.e. what happened to McLaren and their illegal 1999 cars bodywork). But they have also been on the other side - flexi-wings, illegal barge boards, tire changes, etc.

I think the FIA should KEEP OUT of trying to fiddle with the spectacle and the even-ness of competition. It should be a perfectly level playing field with no ambiguity.




So how does all that relate to the question at hand? Well, its another example of fiddling. Either the car is legal or it is not. If it is, then leave the WCC points. If it is not, then toss their WCC points AND toss the drivers and their points. This whole "amnesty" bullcrap thing was invented, IMO, as an after-the-fact excuse to let Alonso and Hamilton continue to compete in the 07 season just to keep it interesting. Thats bogus. If the car was legal and no Ferrari info was used, the WCC points should stay, and other penalties should be imposed in addition to the $$ fine. But if the opposite is true, then toss out Hamilton AND Alonso - its the only fair thing to do.

 

well said. Yes they should have been kicked out but then F1 would lose all of it's english and spanish viewers.