Another heel & toe question

Hi all,

I've been trying to master the heel and toe technique for a few days now, but I have multiple questions which i weren't able to get answers to by using the search-function.

First of all, I've been reading several guides, and what I noted was, that some distinguish between 'blip throttle, shift gear, dump clutch' and 'shift gear, blip throttle, dump clutch'. This made me wonder if there would be any difference in both clutch wear and clutch timing, or if it's of no consequence.

Secondly, I'm driving a BMW 323ci, in where the gas- and brake pedals are positioned very close together, making it hard to use my heel to brake (I actually find it easier to do it in an Opel - shouldn't a BMW be more driver-oriented than an Opel?!) - I find it a bit more "natural" to be using the left of my "toe" to apply brake and the right to apply gas - is that considered heel and toe too? Would it be preferable to master "real" heel and toe (actually using my heel), rather than this?

Discussing the matter with the Opel vs. BMW even further - one problem with the BMW pedal-alignment, is that the throttle is mounted to the floor (where in the Opel in the 'roof' - this makes it hard to really use the heel to gas, as I'm then going to be pressing the very bottom of the pedal, thus making the blip very uncontrollable - I see this alignment in many Ferraris too - would a larger space between accelerator- and brake-pedals make it easier?

Furthermore, some "double-blip" the throttle, to rev match - does this give any advantage to just blipping 'once'?

I hope this came out in an intelligible way!
I hope I haven't overseen any threads or websites about this - as said I did a search and not having an expert mentor handy makes it all quite confusing, when not wanting to do everything completely wrong from the start

[bibliography] - of what I can remember... apparently memory not as good as it could have been...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPj9XXW25GA&mode=related&search=
http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/howto/articles/45792/article.html
http://nwrfca.org/faq/heeltoe.html
Various Google and on-site searches

Sorry, this should of course have been posted in the cars [...] subforum...

 

here..have a look at this clip, Senna doing heel-to-toe around Suzuka..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAwJsOECGBU

 

Hey,
I would dissect your post and try to answer all they questions, but I'll try and just go for the big picture. Your foot size will play a big part in exactly how you heel toe. You said you have only been practicing a few days, it takes a while to be able to do it accurately so keep at it. I would recommend with the car stopped and your toes fully on the brake, try rolling your foot, sliding the heel....to see how you can best modulate the gas with the side of your foot/ heel.

On the question of one or two blips with a standard syncro transmission one blip is sufficient pending you are able to accurately match the rpm's, obviously if you do not get enough revs you'll have to give it another hit. Two blips can come into play when you are dealing with gearbox's without syncro's.

I would search bimmerforums for some more info on the topic. If I recall user BMWRETARD on there has made some good posts on the subject. Everyone has their own opinion, but I prefer floor mounted pedals and feel bmw has the best pedal placement out of mainstream brand cars.

Keep practicing, you'll get good.

 

I would also recommend getting a pair of loafers like Senna's. That might help as well.

 

Was he wearing dress shoes? It was interesting to see him tap the gas pedal a few times before going into most corners.

 

It looked like he wanted more speed than he had going in.

 

I have large feet and use the sides of my feet when in a tight footwell. The BMWs are like any car, decide what feels comfortable for you, make sure you won't be slipping off of the pedals and practice.

 

i think racing shoes would be ideal.

 

OC Speed Junkie,

Thanks for your advice, I'll definitely be using it, without a doubt making me a bit better!

I've looked at bimmerforums, and there sure was quite a lot of interesting reading!

62 250 GTO,

I'll tried your advice, and it actually worked quite nice for me - thanks for the advice!

Everybody,

Thank you very much for your comments!

 

Whatever works for you.

 

Possible he was attempting to loosen the rear wheels and induce some drift.

 

Tapping the pedal for that is a little risky, I roll on the throttle quickly at one rate. Tapping a few times quickly can give you too much oversteer in my opinion.

 

I figured he was doing it to slightly rotate the car. Kind of hard to criticize Senna's driving.

 

I wasn't criticizing Sennas driving I was doubtful that the explanation above was accurate in describing Senna's foot movements.

Why would someone of that caliber do something 3 times, using the time and effort when he would only have to do it once? I dunno, just seems odd.

 

Use the ball of your foot on the brake, and the pinky toe area on the gas pedal. You don't really use your heel at all. Notice in the link how Senna's foot remains pretty much vertical.

Tim

 

Multiple throttle blips through the corner was a unique Senna signature. In F1 he did the same - provoking the car thru the corner. Jackie Stewart and Alain Prost's style was very different emphasizing smoothness. But it worked for Senna - he was unquestionably the fastest guy in F1 in his time.

I feel he learnt to use this style while driving the turbo F1 cars - using the throttle jabs to keep the turbos spooled up thru the corners.

 

I find that with my feet, in most street driving if I want to blip the throttle while braking, I use the left and right side of my toes. Only if I go really really deep on the brakes is it practical to slide my heel over for the throttle pedal. I also have really long legs. My shoe size is such i can't touch any one pedal in a Lotus Elise if I have my shoes on, gotta take 'em off.