Uh, nope - the 5 mph bumper law has actually never been rescinded, it's still in effect. The only change since 1974 is that the US changed the rear bumper requirement from 5 mph to 2.5 mph sometime in the late 80s - the front bumper requirement has remained at 5 mph since 1973. The only difference is that the manufacturers got a lot better at designing systems over the years to absorb the energy without requiring the big cow catcher bumpers of the mid 70s.
You sure? http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/studies/Bumper/Index.html 3) What are the Federal regulations for bumpers? "49 CFR Part 581, "The bumper standard," prescribes performance requirements for passenger cars in low-speed front and rear collisions. It applies to front and rear bumpers on passenger cars to prevent the damage to the car body and safety related equipment at barrier impact speeds of 2½ mph across the full width and 1½ mph on the corners..." and "The most recent revisions to the bumper standard took place in May 14, 1982, effective for MY 1983 and subsequent model year passenger cars. This amendment reduced test impact speeds from 5 mph to 2.5 mph for longitudinal front and rear barrier and pendulum impacts and from 3 mph to 1.5 mph for corner pendulum impacts. In addition, Phase I damage resistance criteria were substituted for Phase II criteria and a bumper height requirements of 16 to 20 inches was established for passenger cars." and "The agency concluded that reducing the impact speed from 5 mph to 2½ front and rear impact speed best satisfied the statutory criteria that the bumper standard "seek to obtain maximum feasible reduction in costs to the public and to the consumer." The agency also concluded that reducing the impact speed to 2½ mph and eliminating the Phase II damage criteria would not have an adverse effect on safety as measured by the number of crashes, deaths or injuries that occur annually. The agency set the protection standard at 2½ mph after studying the comparable repair costs of a 5 mph bumper that has higher energy absorption capacity along with additional cost and weight. After public hearings involving all parties, including consumers and manufacturers, NHTSA concluded that the public is assured of the largest net benefits under a standard that requires 2½ mph protection for both the front and rear bumpers."
If you are a true Southerner, no explanations nor apologies are needed. If people have a problem with it, F&%$ Em'!
Comparing the 308 to a Corvette in 1984? Which car company had the money to build the better car??? Ferrari has full tube-frame race bred car chassis, unequal length control arms front and rear, coil over shocks. Corvette has ladder frame just like thier half ton truck with bolted on fiberglass body and body panels, unequal length arms front, transverse leaf spring rear, tube shocks. Which one has the performance chassis? Ferrari 235 HP from 178 C.I., Corvette 205 HP from 350 C.I. 308 makes 1.32 HP per cube, Corvette makes .58. Which one has a performance engine? Ferrari has all alloy block, alloy twin cam 4 valves per cylinder heads, tube headers. Corvette has cast iron block, cast iron single cam in block 2 valve pushrod heads, cast iron manifolds. Which on uses race bred engine technology? But the biggest comparison is that (in general terms) the people who would buy a Corvette knew nothing about cars outside the USA. They didnt buy them because they were sports cars, they bought them for the reasons mentioned, such as good A/C, power steering, auto trans, power windows, power seats, power mirrors, power locks, and that distictive American V8 rumble. They were pretty good at all that as a blvd. cruiser. The 308 buyer OTOH was generally looking for real performance all around, and the 308 had it. Read almost any magazine article from that era. While other cars in its class could mildly outperform it in "some" area, NOTHING could do everything as well as a 308. A Porche 944 could whoop it (barely) in acceleration, or the slalom, but out on a real track they didnt have as good an advantage. In the hands of a good Pilot a 308 was always written about with a joy that overshadowed almost any other car on the planet. By comparison, the Corvette was always at the bottom of the heap. It rattled, squeaked, and was always mentioned in how harsh it drove. While it could pull off good skid pad or slalom numbers, driving it at high speed was always scarey. Go back and read mags from the era if you dont believe it. It was crap. And while a Corvette could certainly stomp just about anything down a straightaway, come the first corner even a dumb '68 MGB could get away from one. So to recap. The 308 buyer walking into a Ferrari dealer was fully aware of the Corvette, what it was, what it could do, and wanst interested. The Corvette buyer knew nothing much about anything outside our country, and didnt care. And most of them still dont. If they can beat you to the next traffic light, in thier simple myopic mind, they beat you. They dont really care if thier Vette has crude independent suspension or a low center of gravity, for them its simply the looks and straight line performance thats important. Put straight axles under it and they would still buy them. Some might even find some way to argue it being some technological improvement I dont have anything personaly against a Corvette, but comparing one to a Ferrari is like comparing a dandilion to a rose.
Sorry, but it seems to me that you do not know your Corvettes. The last year for a body on frame car was 1982. The 1984 (there was no 1983 Corvette) had steel "birdcage" frame that was integrated into the body, with an aluminum backbone that separately attached to the transmission and rear. Yes, it had unequal length arms, made from aluminum, up front. It also had 4 trailing links in the rear with a fiberglass transverse "leaf spring" out back. True numbers. But, which car can go 30,000 miles between a "tune up?" I might also mention that a "tune up" on a Corvette is a few hundred dollars. How much would it be for a 308? Close! Actually, the '84 Corvette had tubular "manifilds" of stainless steal. Again, though, we weren't talking about a 1968 Corvette, we were talking about a 1984 Corvette, which actually handled very well. A Z51 pulled a G on the skidpad, and exibited about 2* less body roll than a 1984 308. I don't know why you think driving a 1984 Corvette at high speed was scary though... I would also say that a lot of Ferrari buyers bought them because a) the magazine guys said they were really cool. b) They are definitely a status symbol. and c) you didn't see as many of them as you did other cars. Kind of a high-minded outlook there! I bet they are probably trailer trash too, right? I don't think you meant to be so insulting to this Corvette segment of the population, buy you make a few petty generalizations there. I would also say that, from 1984 on, Corvette continually moved towards world car status. Road tests of the most recent Corvettes rank them right up there with the most exotic road cars, yet at around 1/3 the price. Oh, and the new ones will go nearly 100,000 miles before it needs a few hundred dollar "tune up." Shiny Side Up! Bill
no worries, other people on here have asked about the tag on my euro cars. it was on my green 911 for awhile too, and i may buy one for the black 911 i just bought. the tags are getting hard to find, even in Georgia. i thought Bullfighters comments were funny, but some on here have pm'd me before about them being on euro cars. Image Unavailable, Please Login
during my muscle car horse trading days i ended up with a few vettes. they were cheap, and were mistreated and need of work. they were basically a more refined Z28 to me, but i would rather have had the early 70's Z28's than any of the same period vettes. the LS1 Trans Am and Z28s are still great cars and i still want a ram air 6 speed T/A . but the early GMa s compared to even the lowly 308 pales in comparison. 308s are fun for what they are, and when they were made. funny how 308's are bached on the lambo and Lotus boards i am on. but not too many of these guys have had as many cars of the same type as i have.
I heartily agree. As for the original poster's question: The people who want Corvettes and those who want Ferraris are, for the most part, not the same people.
I owned and loved my 70' Corvette for 23 years, the longest I've owned any car and it was my first car, bought when it was only 3 years old. It was one of the most reliable and fun cars I've ever owned. I bought it because in 73', Corvettes were relatively rare on the streets and a blast to drive compared to anything else. The 70' Corvette was a "poor man's" Ferrari. At the time a Ferrari was unatainable and only a distant fantasy to me, being in my 20's. It had hidden wipers, hidden headlights, a fiber optic light monitoring system and 300hp, that made it very "James Bond ish" too. Today, my 70' Corvette is long gone and the Ferrari takes it's place for many of the same reasons, that I bought the Corvette. The 308 is rare, very beautiful and a blast to drive. Corvettes are on every street corner and nothing special to see(except the old restored ones). They do outperform 90% of the cars on the road but are just too common to get excited about anymore. Huge production numbers distroyed its "Mistique". I hope that never happens to Ferrari. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Corvettes are far more practical to own than Ferraris and the C5 and C6 Corvettes are actually fantastic performance cars for the money. It's not surprising that the vettes are so popular and that there are so many on the roads. Ferrari buyers are clearly in a different league and are willing to pay a premium to purchase and maintain a unique car. I've always loved both Ferraris and vettes (the 308 is my all time favorite car though!). I also own a 1964 corvette stingray that I am currently finishing a complete frame off restoration. It's a fun car with major mojo. It's a 365 hp 327 with a 4 speed. My vette actually has a better hp/weight ration than my 308. I get 10 times the attention in my vette than I do in my Ferrari. It is truly incredible the love that vette gets. My vette is clearly a very crude vehicle and comparing it to an '85 Ferrari is silly since it is more than 20 years older. However, it is very fun for what it is. One thing I can atest to is that it is a VERY scary car above 100 mph. I have had my vette going maybe 105 or 110 and believe me, it felt like it was ready to fly apart into a zillion pieces. I've had my 308 up to 100 and it is stable and tight. The Ferrari gives me confidence when I drive it while the Vette lets me know that it's barely hanging together. I love them both though! Paul
Overall I tend to agree with Paul. I doubt Ferrari buyers/owners went into it looking for a low maintenance car, whereas buyers of American cars (even today) expect pretty much a maintenance-free experience. Credit Chevy for understanding that. However, the '84 Corvette was a huge step forward, even if the ride was horrible (you can hit 1g, but doing so without beating up the driver is an art) and the build quality was typical 1980s GM plasticky rubbish with a green, red and yellow Pac-Man instrument panel. They trimmed the size to more serious performance car dimensions, came up with a design that's basically still in place today, and made a car that the Euro-centric motoring press enthused about. But if you look inside an '84 308 today, and an '84 Corvette, there's no doubt that the Italian car has a timeless look about it and the Corvette would be mildly embarrassing now. I think your comments about coolness, rarity and status symbol are right. Although the 308/328 are proper drivers' cars, a Ferrari is a Ferrari and there's no disputing the magic of the badge. In 1984, I think that would have been 100% true. The C6 version has come a long way (although still with a rental car interior), probably does get parked alongside more exotic cars than would have been true back then.
The boys came out today.....even the ugly FROG. What a beautiful fall day in Virginia. On the technical note, how can you fault the frog? It has about the same compression in motor as my QV, but Porsche had the sense to add the turbo charger. (Pretty cool that a car engineered in 77 had 300HP and is still competitive today. Add a new intercooler and turbo and 400HP at the ground is readily available) And lets compare the bumpers....can you really say the bumpers on the 911 were worse than the 308? I am still trying to figure that argument out. But in the end.....the Ferrari still sounds like an F1 car and the experience is magical. Mine has a tubi and sounds great especially in underpasses and tunnels. PS...class of 90 but stuck in the 80s. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Not anymore! I was quite sure up until now... I do know that Canada followed the US into 5 mph bumpers, and continues to require 5 mph bumpers to this day. That causes a problem for anyone wanting to import a US spec car to Canada - but I'd always understood it to be the rear bumper that was the issue. I now know that the front bumper can be a problem, too - thanks for the update. There are several car models that were sold in the US that were never sold new in Canada because of rear bumper requirements - the latest generation Toyota MR2 Spyder, and 99 - 02 Audi A4/S4 Avant (B5 wagons). The sedan versions of the A4 series were sold here, but the wagons were never certified due to the rear bumper issue! (Audi does do a version of the B6/B7, 2002+ A4/S4 wagons for Canada now).
you have great taste! nice line up ! i love the 300Z ... what was a 911 coupe in 84 when the QV was new in showrooms? my 89 loaded was around $57,500. i would think more BMW, and Porsche buyers were in the 308's new car price range than the Corvettes of the period.
I forgot about the price argument. The 89 Turbo Cab was around $86k, so it was quite a bit more cash. I don't think the 89 328 Msrp topped it. The Turbo Coupe was not offered in the US until 86, but it did have a $50K starting price in 86. The thing that you have to remember is that prices for the Porsche and the Ferrari went insane towards the end of the 90s. Enzos death caused the elevation in the Ferrari market and I think Porsche just lost their minds. (Do you remember all of the crazy leather options?) The Z is a car I just got back. I loved the car and had one when it came out, and I feel demonstrates all of the modern technology. For 90, it had all electronic fuel, ignition, twin turbos, variable valve timing, ABS, 4 wheel steering, etc....it simply weighs a bit too much. But it is a great cruising car and with the intake and chip change it makes more power and torque than a 355. This is a 91 with 8K miles. But back to the 308....I still agree with the 2nd post...Magnum made the car famous and drove the "leaders" to take a risk and buy the car. There was only one in my area, but I still remember how beautiful it looked and sounded. Mentally I bought the car in eight grade. Thanks Higgi Baby!!!!
I read recently (on Wikipedia) that Magnum was supposed to drive a Porsche 928, but the TV people wanted it to have a larger sunroof for aerial shots than the standard 928. Porsche was unwilling to build a one-off and the TV people went with the Ferrari 308. Totally off topic, but I would like to find a decent 1978 928 to be the stablemate of my 308. Aaron
Gotta love the frog. I'm surprised MSRP on the Turbo was $86K. That would edge out the 328 (approx. $84K). The 911 Turbo coupe in the 1986 R&T article on the 328 topped out at $49K, so the cab must have been far more expensive. Staying off topic: you're better off with a frog.
ATSAaron, I see you're in your early 30's, per your profile... If you weren't old enough back then to know the atmosphere of the time (us old farts recall it well), Magnum might have given a lot of people the 'intro' to Fcars, but up close/in person, there was just nuthin' out there to compare. I still remember the first Fcar I saw live, and that was a dirty 308QV sitting in a parking garage at SFO airport, around 1986. Came out of an elevator...and there it WAS. Really sumpin' else. Nothing else came close to a real Fcar. Corvettes? Well...they're Chevys...not too mention quite common. Wasn't ever a question of IF, but more one of HOW...to snag an Fcar.
+1 In my high school notebooks, I'd scribble the Ferrari script on every page. I didn't "dream" about a Corvette. I dreamt of Ferraris. Not that the Ferrari wasn't a perfromer in its day and age, but the mid-80's C4 turned me off with the (as one magazine called it) "Tokyo By Night" electronic instrumentation, etc. Plus the lines of the C4 never worked for me. The 1968 Stingray had much more beautiful lines IMO and is my benchmark for Corvettes. For me, the Ferrari had the image, panache and legacy that dreams are made of. And remember, back in the "Look At Me" 80's, ergonomics took a back seat to image. Not to mention that performance was still recovering from the late 70's and early 80's, so the only thing to attract buyers was image and styling. Bob
True, seeing a 308 in person the first time was like meeting (insert your favorite hot actress' name here) in person. Just mindblowing, even though you've seen hundreds of pics. The proportions on the 308 were astonishing - impossibly low, curves everywhere. It's funny because I have a 328 in my garage right now, and it should be just another of the many cars I've owned. Yet if I'm out somewhere in my Audi during the work week and I see a 308/328 parked somewhere I get the same reaction I got in 1985 when I first saw one in the metal. No Corvette, of any engine spec or body style, has ever done it for me the same way.
QUOTE " Mentally I bought the car in eight grade. Thanks Higgi Baby!!!![/QUOTE] i loved this post from you, as its so true for many of us. hell i was sold as kid on many of the cars i have now. i still want a Countach, but a friend is getting one , so i can spend some time in his and see if i can live with one. the 1st generation MR2 Supercharged, the 2nd gen MR2 Turbo and the 300z are my favorite Japanese cars. i am only an average driver, and have never enjoyed modded Supra's much, as they are a handful on the street, and i dont want to hurt anyone. ( i am not into "speed" as much as just getting a feel for the car.) i am a recent 911 convert, having avoided the brand for a few years. but a euro 308 GTB in carb or injected form is still a icon for me. i know its old, and a bit slow, and it really bugs the lambo guys we like them. but 308's are "fun" cars. ultimately, that is all i care about. what makes "me" smile. i bet the 300z is a blast to drive! i dont have the balls or skills to pilot a 911 turbo yet !
