1948 Nuvolari/Cavallino #161 p3

WOW!!! The letter from Pierre Goossens states that #010I was as Berne on May 2 1848 and driven by Sommer in the G P of Nations which means that ,if true, could not have been the car Nuvola drove in the Mille Miglia which took place the same day.And if this is right you know, Barchetta really does have the goods on this one. They really are correct "most" of the time.Can someone out there post the "photographic evidence" which Goossens refers to. So what car did Nuvola drive??I like the theory that it was #006C. Both car were owned by the Troubetzkow/Sterzi Gruppe Inter team and part of the deal with Ferrari was that the factory would maintain and prepare the cars and also would be able to use eather as facrory team cars at any time.Troubetzkow had entered #006C in the Mille Miglia for him to drive but was taken ill shortly before the race. Nuvola was without a ride as he had been hoping tha Alfa would give him one of there new competition cars to drive. but for some reason Alfa wanted no part of Nuvolari after the war.[was his move to Auto Union the reason?] So Enzo, seeing that Nuvola had no ride , offered him #006C which was then available as a factory car.What is also interesting is that when you look at the pictures of Nuvola in the M M the grill of the car he is driving is quite diferent from that of #010I. Let's see what other theories are out there tongascrew

 

010I was the car with the horseshoe grille, 006I had a standard Spyder Corsa grille.
Pierre Goossens believes it was the other way round.

 

2/5/1948 Mille Miglia:
Tazio Nuvolari/Sergio Scapinelli 166 Spider Corsa Allemano "006i" n° 1049


http://brunodaytona67.canalblog.com/albums/ferrari__sports__grand_tourismes_et_monoplaces/photos/18067567-1948_166_sc_mille_miglia_nuvolari_scapinelli_1.html


and seven follow

 

Michael, is it then your idea that it was #006C at Berne and ,in fact, Nuvolari did drive #010I in the Mille MIglia? De Losekley seems to think it was #006 that Nuvola drove. I don't have any pictures of #006C but there are plenty of pictures showing the horseshoe shaped radiater grill on the Nuvola car. When you get a chance can you look around and see what you have on #006C as well pictures of #001I at other events. The front ends of these cars were changed so often it is sometimes hard to keep them straight. Thanks much. tongascrew

 

Yes.

I do not know Pierre Goossens arguments for the opposite theory, therefore I am unable to comment them.

 

The coachwork on car #1049 is certainly NOT Allemano! THIS is what the 166 Allemano spider looks like, and there was only one (plus a similar looking coupe) ! http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=376432&stc=1&d=1156433258

Even though I was one of the people that first supported the idea that 01C became 010I, the more I study photos, and the more I explore the difference between 125 chassis and 166 chassis, the less I am sure, in spite of the lead "plug" on 010I that when removed, showed 01C. Based on drawings in Colombo's book, and other sources, a 125 chassis COULD NOT become a 166 chassis; too many differences.

I would LOVE for Marcel to express his opinion on this matter...

 

Michael I do have several pictures of #006C and the radiator grill[slightly horizontally oblong with rounded corners] is completely different from #010I which is definitely the look of the Nuvolari Mille Miglia car. "Red Arrows" agrees.So again you seem to be correct. Congratulations!!! What would help is if someone could post pictures of the Sommer car at Berne. Sterzi was not at all happy with the deal that the Gruppa Inter cars could be used by Ferrari as factory cars and it may well be that the Sommer car was not #006C. Even some published written info could be helpful. I am assuming that the Sommer car was a 166 and not a 125. Thanks again for your info. I am sure we will be in touch again..George tongascrew

 

Yes, in 1948 the Sommer car would be either a 159 or a 166, and NOT a 125.

Jim's 002 started out as a 159 (there are stampings in the motor to that effect), but as it sits today, it is a 166. It was NEVER a 125!!...

 

The Grand Prix des Nations was not at Bern but at Genève. And which 125? There was no tipo 125 at that time.
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I fogot to menion that the only 125 that exists today is the Ferrari built Pescara style "replica". In my opinion, the chassis on this car is incorrect! The chassis is in the 159/166 style, and NOT in the 125 style, which is different...


Plus, the coachwork on the "replica", IMO, sits in the "Valley of the way-beyond over restored"
....

 

Michael do you have any thoughts on this?

Best

 

2 May 1948 GP des Nations Geneva Giuseppe Farina winner (Maserati 4CL)

 

Michael,thanks much for the picture.This car does look quite different from #101I. Can we safely say the Sommer car at "Geneva" was #006C? tongascrew

 

Someone should find the old Doug Nye interview / article with the Prince done back in the early / mid 80s. I used to have a copy but have not seen it in many years.

The Prince had some rather unkind words for Enzo over the fact that he allowed Nuvolari's use of his car during the MM without his permission of any kind.

In 1997 I took 01C/010I to the Nuvolari Museum prior to a month long holiday and ride in the car in the Mille Miglia. As you walk into the museum directly ahead of you against the wall is a large pedestal and glass case. Resting on it is the original bonnet (coffano) from Nuvolari's car. When the museum opened it was donated by a farmer who recovered the bonnet after it blew off Nuvolari's car. Prior to donating it the farmer had pounded it flat and used it as a cover over his chicken coop.

When we got to the Museum, the caretaker took the bonnet out of the case and we bent it back into a more or less round shape. We took the one fitted to 01C/010I off and put the original back on. It fit like crap but looked cool as heck.

I lived in the car for most of the month of May that Spring and toured all of Italy. I was also a guest of the Ferrari Factory with the car and got to drive many laps in it around Fiorano before and after the boys were testing the F1 cars for the upcoming Monaco GP.

While there, I was shown the original dispatch card for the car and some accounting documents for expenses and charges related to the car prior to the Prince's purchase as well as after. These were the original documents that Rogliatti used to confirm the scrapping of 01C and construction of 010I. To put it simply, Ferrari has one set of invoices, documents and records for two chassis numbers used on this same car.

These are the same set of records and documents Ferrari referred to when they made the public determination and assistance to the current owner of the car.

Cheers,

Bill Noon

 

One other interesting item. When I met and spoke with Troubetzkow in Paris in 1998, he introduced himself as "Prince" Troubetzkow and not Count Troubetzkow. Possibly it was simply a language issue but I was always under the impression that he was somehow related to Russian Royalty and a Count? Anyone know anything further on this?

Cheers,

Bill Noon

 

OK, but why is the chassis in the car today like a 159/166 and NOT like a 125? There are substantial differences between a 125 chassis and a 159/166 chassis, based on drawings in Colombo's book and other documents.

You said there are records of Rogliatti "scrapping" 01C. What exactly did that mean in 1948?

Could it be that the engine and part of the coachwork of 01C were transplanted into a new 159/166 style chassis back in 1948, possibly using some of the old chassis tubes and other chassis parts?

 

See this thread for futher comments/opinions on the 159s and 166s, including discussion in regard to 01C/010I: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=116277&highlight=159+166

 

No clue one what was used and what was not used. There are not cuts or breaks, mods in the frame of 01C/010I except for the repaired damage to the spring shackle from Nuvolari's run in the Mille Miglia. None of the coachwork, bulkheads etc.. on the car is original. Every bit of the car under the skin however dates to 1948 and older.

All four corners of the frame near each suspension pick-up point is clearly stamped with a big "1" and the steering box and engine have 1948 date codes on them. The engine is definately a 2nd series engine with the 1948 revisions. It is still 2.0-liters or was when we last had it and it is the engine sold new with the car to Troubetzkow. The sump has the movable windage trays etc... and the cam box covers are the plain raw cast type etc...

I saw the car the last time at Pebble Beach. The original frame stamp remains beautifully clear and depending on if you view it from the engine side looking out or the wheel side looking in its obvious that it was stamped at one point "01C" then stamped over in the opposite direction "001I."

1996, I asked Ferrari for direct assistance with the car and early records on it etc... They put Rogliatti on it and he was quite helpful. The records were clear then and obviously have not changed since. Ferrari understood and made no issues about clearly stating that 01C became 010I and was sold new to Troubetzkow as a new car.

One interesting point Rogliatti stated very clearly was that the original drawings for the first chassis were redesigned by GILCO at least once and possibly several times with direct approval from Enzo. GILCO got the job of building the chassis for these cars purely by luck. They went to Enzo shorty after the end of hostilities to find out about getting suplies of finished machine parts and fasteners. Enzo made it clear that they were no longer in this business. Their purpose was to build race cars. GILCO asked for a shot at the work and Enzo gave it to them. The rest is history.

 

Hi Bill,

He should be addressed "Votre Altesse" (Your Highness) or "Monseigneur" (Sir), he prefers the latter.
He is (was) prince of the Royal Russian Court, but his family left Russia some years before the russian revolution of 1917.
His father had advised the czar Nicolas II to soften his regime and open up or wait for the worst to happen. This advise was ill taken by the czar and he had to pack his bags. The family at first emigrated to the USA, but ended up in Paris and the Côte d'Azur. Igor was born in Paris in 1912.

Best
Boudewijn

 

Very cool and very kind of you Boudewijn!

We had tea together at beautiful hotel cafe near embassy row in Paris many years ago.

He spoke more about his wife (wives) than of the cars in his life.

Quite the gentleman to say the least!

Warm regards always,

Bill

 

Well, that certainly gives me something to chew over, as the 125 chassis drawings are clearly different than the 159 or 166 drawings I have seen!

Do you think it remotely possible that 01C had one chassis (125 style) in late 1946 or early 1947 with a 125 engine, and then had a second chassis (159/166 style with 159 or 166 motor) in late 1947 or early 1948 (which later became 010I)....in essence that there were really 2 cars numbered 01C, the 2nd of which became 010I???

 

Hi Stu, not According to Ferrari or their records. Their info is pretty basic and rather to the point.

Cheers,

Bill

 

Thanks Bill.

I'm going to telephone my friends at Trafiltubi, which is the new (starting circa 1980) name for Gilco. The last time I talked to them, I was given the IMPRESSSION that a chassis like the drawing in the Colombo book actually WAS built. It might have never been used though. I'm going to see if the can COMPLETELY search their files for photos. Something VERY interesting may turn up...

Stu

 

Yes, sure, and I laid them down in the other thread about this topic. I see no reason to repeat myself constantly.

 

Safely - no. It is generally accepted that the horseshoe grille Scuderia Inter car was 010I, and the other with the standard grille 006I. If Pierre Goossens believes it was the other way round, then this could be an interesting discussion. However, without knowing his arguments - where should we start?