Crappy Replicas thread

Most other Aussies seem fairly comfortable about (P4) replicas. This one regularly appears at F.O.C. meets in Sydney, and has been a special award winner at Auto Italia Canberra in previous years.

http://www.autoitaliacanberra.com/gallery4/slides/Ferrari_P4_Replica.JPG.html
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Many of the "real" Ferrari's where totally redone in styling, chassis, engine, etc, after leaving the factory - especially in the interest of staying competitive in racing - and yet, people still hold in respect these sometimes very literal "hobby-shed" Ferrari's - that are very little related to how they came from the factory.

A lot of the Ferrari replica's on ebay, or Porsche Carrera GT, etc, blugh at whoever built them and advertised them. I HATE! HATE! When they go 'You can own a Ferrari for 1/10th the cost and fool all your friends', etc. Especially when I can take just one glance at it and realize its fake. Selling a MR2 with a "bodykit" that pulls styling cues from a 360, then calling it a Ferrari...common, puhlease!

 

Hope this isn't a RE-post
http://enzoferrari.p45.googlepages.com/home

 

Are any of those pictures the replicas? if they are then that is one of the greatest replicas i have seen, do those happen to be the original P4/5 assembly pictures?

 

Smells fishy to me: The light green colored P4/5 is IIRC the mockup they used for wind tunnel testing.

At any case I sent Jim a heads-up. I'm sure he'll enlighten us.

I'd love to have a replica of Jim's P4/5, but I doubt they're for sale.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Replica-Hot-Red-V-8-2dr-Testa-Firebird-Looks-Real_W0QQitemZ180170578016QQihZ008QQcategoryZ7251QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

This is what pisses me off, and I applaud Ferrari for taking down auctions by guys like this. I'm sure if he really could list it how he wanted to, I'd be even more pissed off. "Park it next to a real Italian car and people will make a mistake thinking it is too...." yeah right!

Compare it to this concise description here.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1996-LOTUS-SUPER-7-RM-REPLICA-ROTARY-POWERED_W0QQitemZ260172154720QQihZ016QQcategoryZ7251QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

What the hell is a "948b"?

 

Im guessing he was going for 348 but the car is modelled after a TR, if I was going to have a replica, I would at least know what model it kind of looks like.

 

Most of those shots are from the PF Website. I'm sending the link on to Ferrari and Pininfarina. They'll be hearing from us.

Thanks

 

I'd love to see it too, rolling artwork... as I said before, mixed emotions!

Actually, I guess there's a reasonable chance it will be at the Ferrari Rally in a couple weeks (should be between 60-80 Ferraris) so I might get a chance to get some good shots.

 

The P4/5 replica suspension pics have also been lifted from an Australian manufacturers site...the Redback Spyder by Carbontech...

Someone deserves to be in a "Whole heap of trouble"....its that kind of behaviour that helps create such a bad stigma in the industry...besides the fact the most of you think replicas are "Crappy" of course... .

 

Thanks for info. I suspect the whole thing may be fraud simply to gather deposits and run. Hey I've clearly said that a lot of Love goes into many replica's and the ones the Fran I know makes and markets are very well engineered, reasonably priced, use no original cars as basis, and are clearly advertised as exactly what they are.

I've also gone on record as having said that Paul S. and his registry are totally above board and that while we don't agree about everything I have great respect for his knowledge of P3's 412P's P 3/4, P4's, 330 and 350 Can Am's.
Best

 

Jim,

I imagine you're familiar with Mark Gerish, and I'm wondering how you feel about his recreations.

A number of years ago I showed an interest in the 250 GTO Spyder he was building for Frank Beard. Frank said I could buy it, and he would wait for Mark to build another one for him, but I turned down the offer.

It was around the same time Mark was building a Pontoon Fender Testa Rossa for ZZ TOP.

Mark does some pretty incredible work, and he's never been hassled by Ferrari.

Some of his are so accurate (it depends on how much you want to spend), that even Ferrari experts have trouble telling if they're real or not. Just wondering how you feel about cars that are as accurate as the originals, but are not sold as such.

 

Thanks, Jim !

 

It would also be interesting to know exactly what Ferrari S.p.A.’s official take on this is, too. Because, to a certain extent, they appear to be applying double standards, in their efforts to protect their brand name / copyright / intellectual property.

There is the recent news that Ferrari have successfully instigated the seizure of a number of Pontiac Fiero-based 355 replicas (in Italy) and the prosecution of their owners on ‘counterfeiting’ charges. A Noble P4 replica, built in 1990, foolishly advertised by an Italian classic car dealer (also on eBay and YouTube) as a ‘Ferrari 330 P4’, back in July, (see this thread) fortunately escaped the clutches of the Guardia di Finanz, though Ferrari S.p.A.’s lawyers had the offending web pages removed within days.

Yet we have cars like the Norwood P4, blatantly advertised on the ‘Net: http://www.p4norwood.com/
Quote from their website:

Could it be that such hi-end (don’t laugh Marcel – if you happen to read this thread) Ferrari replicas as the Norwood P4 (and another extremely accurate-appearing P4 replica under construction in the U.K.), and the likes of the 250GTO spyder built for Frank Beard, are normally built on a commission basis for wealthy owners of 'significant other' real Ferraris (or collections of them) …. and so Ferrari S.p.A. conveniently 'turn a blind eye', rather than upset a high-rolling existing / potential customer ? At least 3 of the existing Norwood P4’s belong to owners who would fit in to this category.

Yet they went after Favre.

Quote from Ed Niles (http://fca-sw.org/article.aspx?article_id=286)

It does make make you wonder, doesn’t it ?

 

Apart from owners’ privacy, another important reason why my registry remains completely private.

 

There are several issues here. Legally if someone adds an aftermarket wing to a Subaru it remains a Subaru. If someone buys a Ferrari and modifies the body it remains a Ferrari with it's original vin#. No different legally than taking a 32 Ford and turning it into a Hot Rod so long as the original 32 Chassis stays with the car. Meg's 57 is legally a 57 Chevy because it's built on a real 57 Chevy chassis with a real vin#:

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=143585

If one buys a real Ferrari and turns it into a Hot Rod as Count Volpe did with the Breadvan it remains legally a Ferrari. The same is true for Marks's "GTO Spyder". The only issue is whether or not Ferrari has a case based on infringing on it's designs/trade dress/etc. which IMO is hard to argue in the case of the Breadvan or a "GTO Spyder" as there never was a Ferrari "GTO Spyder". Cutting the roof off of your 275 GTB as some did to replicate a 275 GTB NART seems clear cut. It's your car if you want to cut the roof off you can. You can't sell it as a 275 GTB NART unless the roof was cut off on the day at the Behest of Mr. Chinetti because that would be fraud.

Take P 4/5 for example. I bought a new 2003 Ferrari Enzo and commissioned Pininfarina to modify it within world wide rules for modification. There is no question legally it remained a 2003 Ferrari. Before it was done Luca saw it and agreed with Andrea that it deserved official recognition so that car is now officially Ferrari P 4/5 by Pininfarina. If Luca hadn't felt it deserved to be officially recognized it wouldn't be officially recognised but it would still Legally be a 2003 Ferrari. This means it could be registered as a 2003 Ferrari with DMV and pass through World Wide Customs as a 2003 Ferrari.

Next take 0846. Legally 0846 is a 1967 Ferrari 330 P3/4 Chassis/Vin# 0846. It has been registered as such for years and has passed through both US and Italian Customs as such and the time where the legal status of 0846 can be challenged by anyone has long passed. Paul and others may not agree that 0846 as it exists today contains the original chassis of 0846 but I do and so does NYS DMV and US Customs and Italian Customs so legally it does.

These examples are the crux of the issue. The Cars that were seized in Italy and for example would not Legally be entitled to be registered as a Ferrari, or recognized as a Ferrari by Customs Authorities as Ferrari's as they are not Ferrari's. The issue is whether or not they are "Counterfeit Ferrari's" built on non Ferrari Chassis infringing on Ferrari's registered designs or "trade dress".

The legal status of a Noble P4 IMO is different than a 308/512BB/turned into a P4 look a like. The question is if the car was registered as a Noble or a Pontiac and it was dressed as a Ferrari is it illegal? In Italy the results of this case will give us some insight but only as regards Italy. In the UK and the US there is no question that replicas are allowed to be registered, not as Ferrari's, but as Kit Cars/Homebuilts and design infringement is a separate issue. It seems that Ferrari has been able to stop the McBurnie Spyders and the "California Spyders" in the US but Shelby has not been able to stop Cobra replicas nor has Ford been able to stop GT 40 replicas in the US and UK.


Best

 

Around 1991/92 Bob Norwood was in the early stages of making his P4's as well as doing some 308 to GTO rebodies. Ferrari and Bob had just had a wrongful death suit dropped where they where co-defendants so Ferrari was well aware of what he was doing. At the same time he decided to take one of the in progress GTO rebodies and do it as an F-40 instead. Ferrari got wind of this and Bob was told it was in his best interest not to proceed with the F-40. The story goes on that Bob was told not to reproduce any current production cars but the reproduction of out of production cars was alright as long as they carry no Ferrari badging and where not advertised or sold as a Ferrari in any way. I worked for Bob at the time so am pretty sure this is an accurate account of what Ferrari's legal department told him, of coarse that was a long time ago and Ferrari is much more protective of the name now. I always thought it interesting and Bob has followed their directive with no further intervention from Ferrari to this point.

 

Some builder use orginal pictures to sell their products is not a very good place to do business.

An old company that once did that with Enzo replica's wouldn't even return my Email's.

 

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Agreed theirs nothing more that gets on my nerves than a Diablo "VT" thats also got an SV rearscoop and a Roadster bumper .

 

Not exactly... there are still Daytona Spyder and California Spyder replicas being made. The big difference being that they no longer call them a "replica" but rather a car designed to look like a certain Italian car.

Shiny Side Up!
Bill

 

But on a Ferrari chassis no??

 

at least he is honest
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Actually, this is also how a lot of the "cobra" replica's are still being made. They couldn't stop them from making a replica, but they where able to get them to drop the name.

 

Given that it's quite often the argument of a kitcar guy that we are happy to have scale models of cars but as soon as we see a 1:1 scale model built by them we tsk-tsk...

Well, here's a question: do the companies who make scale models of Ferraris and Lambos etc - such as Matchbox/Biante/etc - have to be licenced to do so, or are they allowed to just go ahead and make and sell them as they please?