Maybe 10 years ago I was in Ferrari of Atlanta having a PPI done (turned out to be a mess so I didn't buy - a story for another day) Anyway, IIRC the mechanic doing the PPI was putting a 12 into a 308. His name was Ron Rineke and I believe he's on his own now. The last number I had for him was 404-435-6760. My brain may be failing and this could all be a false memory BUT it's probably worth a few phone calls.
Mark, You are the very definition of a mad scientist. I love this! You need to get your own TV show: "Pimp my Fcar" Good luck and I'll be watching!! Birdman
I wonder if that was atlantaman's car....he's lives down there and has been working on it a long time??? I think there are only 4 that were ever done and all used the SOHC 330/365 enigines, I think this is the first attempt with a 400/412 engine.
I think you mentioned that somewhere before, thats going to be a monster ..I like monsters I put a 500ci caddy engine in a fiat x1/9 years ago.....what a chop-job that turned into. That was almost 20 years ago and take sh*t from my friends about every time I start a new project, the first question is always, this isnt another fiadilac is it?
I posted a couple here....I don't want to ruin this thread with them http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=134987108&postcount=43
Mark, you have my admiration. I bought a 400i engine earlier this year and one possible use was to fit it to m GT4. However, unlike you, I had neither the expertise or cojones to go ahead with it! In the end I sold it to a 400 owner, but here's a pic of it with it's intake cover off. I wish you all the very best and will be watching with interest. Dan Image Unavailable, Please Login
It sounds like you just have more sense than me. I see the problem though.....the ports are all pointing in the wrong directions. Heres what heads should look like. Im pretty happy. It looks like the intake ports are nearly identical to the 308QV and I think the exhaust ports are identical, so Im pretty sure the flow will come up to at least what the QV heads will. I ran a quick engine simulation using these heads with the QV flow, 360 lift intake cams Russ just picked out and stock exhaust cams ..550 hp. It looks like external oil return lines will be the way to go, and pretty easy. I also notice how the cam seals are bolted on, which would make it very easy to bolt on a chain cover box and get it sealed. The only concern I still have with the timing chains is if I can get the chain sprocket lined up with an act of god .well see once the engine gets here I guess. The real disappointment is the valve covers dont say ferrari on them. I never noticed that on a tr before and that will just never do .. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Ive acquired 4 sets of 4 46mm throttle bodies over the past few weeks. I bought 4 sets because the outer 2 and inner 2 are a little different and I needed to buy 4 sets to be able to make eight 4 sets of 3 or 2 sets of 6. It looks like 2 sets of 6 will be the way to go, I just need to change the spacing between them to match the ferrari bore spacing so I get a nice straight shot for the air going into the cylinders. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Neato. What is your strategy for air mass measurement for the FI? All those throttle bodies look neat but how do you meter the air? Or I am missing something?
Mass Air Sensor are more about emissions than anything else.....if they are small enough to work well, they restrict air flow. For this set-up, I'll be using TPS vs rpm as the primary air measurement with a MAP for barometric corrections. The good is there is nothing in the way of the air so it yields the best hp numbers, the bad is that ANY change to the intake or exhaust path (muffler, air cleaner, ect) means re-tuning just like with carbs .but it makes the best hp
What is the procedure for adjusting all those throttle bodies to pass the same amount of air? Edit: Those are four valve per cyl heads, not 2v, yes?
Each one has an adjuster, so you just work your way down the line adjusting. The best way is with a flow meter, but you get plenty close enough buy backing out the idle screw and ajusting them all to be closed, the slighty better way is to crank in the idle screw and set them all to so small opening using a shim (like a small allen wrench). Yes, they are 4 vavle heads. I measured the cams last night, they appear to be the same lift and duration as 328 cams. I may save the couple thousand dollars to weld and regrind (intakes only, the exhaust cams are fine) and see how they do stock. I suspect the 512TR cams are the same as 348 cams, so more lift and a touch more duration....I may see if I can find a set, I want the lift, but I don't want more duration. I'll have to think about that and may just stay stock for now to keep expenses in check. edit - I just plugged the stock cams into the simulator and it things I'll go from 554 with custom cams down to 550 with stock....that seems like an awfully expensive 4 hp.....stock it is unless something changes with the head flow or Russ's dyno graph (328 engine, ported heads, custom cam) is just so good I just have to copy (the simulator isn't prefect so the 4 hp could be 14 or so) Image Unavailable, Please Login
I got the heads on the mill last night and mapped out everything that seemed important. Its funny how they look so similar to the QV heads, but them just odd things will be different. The TR heads have 7mm valve stems instead of the QVs 8mm, which is actually a good thing since they really only need to be about 4.5mm or maybe 5mm. The intake valve on the TR is about 1/2mm smaller even though it has to feed a bigger cylinder. The QV cam cover has the same bolt pattern, but some reason, the TR cams centers are over an inch wider because some reason the valve angles are a little bigger (which is the wrong direction for flow). But then the QV head gasket is a perfect match. Strange The one things this means I guess is it makes it a bit harder to keep the intake runners nice and straight. Straight will mean the TBs end up sitting at about a 60 degree angle....which will probably mean the 2 banks will want to run into each other nless I put a bend in the manifold runners...oh well, I'm sure it will all work out just fine in the end. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Ah. Straighforward. What are the hoses going from body to body? That's not for fuel is it? Even if it is, you'd be supplying the injectors from a fuel rail, yes? Forgive all the questions but I'm more of a plenum guy and I am interested in how this setup come together. Truth be told, I'm about 90 minutes from you and "The Man" for MB 600 and 6.3 cars (Karl H. Middelhauve) is in Woxall which I discovered is very close to you. Perhaps if I do a New Hope / Woxall trip in the future I could check out the progress of this project.
The hose are for vacuum and probably went to a MAP sensor, that's what I'll be using the ports for and maybe the power brakes if I keep them (I'm doing a pretty significant brake upgrade too). The fuel comes in through rail assembly, the big black things with a screw in them, tubes in betwen. Since I need to change the spacings, I either need to make new longer tube or a custom fuel rail, but I haven't decided which yet. Sure, stop by. It'll be more interesting in a week or 2 once the engine gets here. Mark
Mark, This looks like an amazing project! Can't wait to see it done. Craig, How's your project coming along? Haven't seen an update in a while.
On the small Subaru blocks that we've been doing for aircraft, we've used hoses just slightly larger than these ones to even out any imbalance between MAP values due to improper set butterfly valves. Don't forget to block these hoses when setting the butterflies!!!! Nice job, by the way! Looking forward to seeing more of this project!!! Hans
Hans, I'm thinking basically the same thing. I want an Idle Air Control (I guess and airplane would have no need for one of those), so I'm going to try mounting an IAC to a small plenum large enough to connect 12 hoses and may make it a little bigger and connect the map and power brake lines to it as well I need to think about that a bit.
This weekend I tried to layout the intake manifold....and realized it's been 5 or 6 years since I even opened my CAD software and I have no idea what I'm doing ..I s*ck at remembering how to work software. I did the oil pan mount last week with no problem, just a plate with some holes in it, easy. The intake was going fine too until I got to the point where I had to make a runner with a circle on 1 end and an oval on the other blended nice and smooth all on a 60 degree angle.....I guess I'll be going thru the tutorial over the next couple nights
I figured out how to get the software to play nice....stupid round on the top, oval on the bottom, 60 degree and tapered runners.... Image Unavailable, Please Login
