Well, that puts the matter to rest... No need for anything inconvenient, like supporting facts or anything like that...
No sense running in the same circles - it's been discussed to death. For the most part it's personal prefs.
You have no facts proving Massa doesn't have the skills to be the best on the grid, because you have no idea what his physical limitations are. Its your opinion he doesn't(as well as others), its my opinion that he does(as well as others). Leave it at that, rather than constantly stating as fact that he doesn't have what it takes. It is nothing personal, but you continue to force your opinion upon others.
Massa has driven brilliantly at times. He has had some less than brilliant performances too. I believe he is improving and hasn't reached his full potential yet. 2008 should be the make or break year. He has a contract to 2010...so somebody (Luca) believes he has talent. As do I.
You mean other than the fact that he has been unable to outperform his teammate in equal cars throughout his entire career? The evidence is overwhelmingly on my side that Massa is no more than another Rubens or Irvine, a midpack driver who is being enormously flattered by his car. I think those of you who think that Massa is the equal of Alonso or Kimi or even Hamilton are deluding yourselves. There is nothing in Massa's record in F1 to suggest anything of the sort.
You can't let things go. I see something in Massa; he has amazing heart and has a genuine love for racing. I think he is far from reacing his physical limitations; he is only going to get better. Luca believes in him, Ferrari believes in him, Jean Todt believes in him, many in F1 believe in him and i strongly believe in him. That is all i care about. I'll root for my guy, but go ahead and bash him at every opportunity.
I wouldn't read too much into his contract extension to 2010. For one they needed a highly motivated Massa to pull off the WDC for Kimi this year. Second contracts in F1 aren't worth the paper they're written on and third none of us really knows the details in that contract: As mentioned before driving for the Scuderia until 2010 doesn't necessarily mean he'll be sitting in a F1 Ferrari until then.
But Luca is quoted saying he has the 2 best drivers in the world. Not that i base that for my reason for liking massa, its more that its the guy i have chosen to root for. I love his driving style, i love his excitement ( both on and off the track), his genuine respect for driving for scuderia, ect. Past results are just that, past results. He had a very promising year, and i'm betting he will do the same next year. Can't wait for the season.
Not to berate the point, but Luca has said many things in public. He is a politician and every bit a worthy successor to Enzo, who also said many things. Anyhow, I couldn't agree more with your other statement. It's gonna be a long winter.
He has heart? Genuine love of racing? What is this? F1 racing or The View? I would rather have consistency of performance, strong passing skills, competitive abilities in the wet, and superior performance relative to his teammates in my driver, wouldn't you? I think next year, without the benefit of traction control, we'll see Massa exposed and an awful lot of you trying to change the subject.
consistency of performance - check strong passing skills - check competitive abilities in the wet - check superior performance relative to his teammates in my driver - check I think next year you'll be exposed. As mentioned before, you are a perfect example why experience is at times a hindrance. Archaic, blk/white models of the world are The View. As experience inches towards perfection it attains a beginner's mind. Yours is stuck in expert mode.
Sorry to butt in here but I just wanted to quickly say that I appreciate all the discussion on this thread in reference to the last few pages. The comments have been both enlightening, entertaining and to me, are some of the aspects that make Fchat great. IMHO, there has been many opportunities for personal attacks and belittling statements toward certain members but you all have kept your comments...(so far)...respectful and "above the belt." For what it's worth, I just wanted to say thank you. Oh and btw, I hope Massa continues to improve and I think he will but unfortunately I feel that he will never be a WDC. That's not to say that he doesn't have the heart or that he isn't a good driver but IMHO, he lacks what it takes to be an F1 WDC.
My pleasure John Wayne. Here's the racer's pov. If you think the philosophy and genetics route will serve your opinion better, go right ahead. http://www.phylotic.com/data/misc/speed%20secrets%20-%20cptr%2012.jpg
At least you're funny. Just stick to your opinion. Hopefully Massa will deliver the hammer blow - you'll understand this.
If he doesn't, he doesn't. In the interim he's one of the fastest if not the fastest on the grid. And I would still enjoy his driving style. Ditto for Kubica.
Why am I not convinced? We have seen Massa screw up on several occasions this year, yet the Massa camp makes up all kinds of excuses. He can botch qualifying or get a disqualification, yet nothing seems to stick. It never is his fault, but the team's, the circumstances blablabla. I'm a Kimi fan and have no problem pointing out his screw ups (e.g. Monaco qualifying), yet this seems incredibly hard to do for the Massa fans. PS: This isn't really targeted solely at phylotic, but at all the Massa apologists.
F1 isn't win or lose for me. I don't care if my favorite driver was 8th in the point standings; He would still remain my favorite driver. As of now, my favorites are Massa and Rosberg. Massa has had a superb season, shown strong passing skills, demonstrated excellent control in the wet (massa - kubica battle), was able to prove that he can be consistent (inconsistencies this season were mostly the fault of the team and not the driver, but i'll admit a few personal mistakes[red light, ect]; but who didn't?)and he outperformed Kimi as much as Kimi outperformed him. He set many fastest laps of the race and was on pole many times. Sure sounds like a mediocre driver... Massa has been exposed as one of the fastest drivers in current F1.
About what? >We have seen Massa screw up on several occasions this year, yet the Massa camp makes up all kinds of excuses. He can botch qualifying or get a disqualification, yet nothing seems to stick. It never is his fault, but the team's, the circumstances blablabla. Oh come on - of course he made mistakes. Only mediocre people don't make mistakes. (and LH I don't even have a problem with much of the Massa bashing - it's just the 'facts' + 'science' in some of them raises the rpms Sheesh, we're not apologists.
