Agreed. We are not talking about personal favorites here, whom you support is your decision and is not one subject to debate. I happen to think JPM is one of the great losses to F1 in recent years but others here will likely feel different. No, all Massa has shown is that the Ferrari is the class of the field. Rubens too set fastest laps, poles and won GPs in that same car. What is Massa doing now that Rubens hadn't done before him??? Kimi had twice as many wins and the WDC. How did Massa outperform him? Fastest laps? Kimi is the current career leader on the F1 grid for fastest race laps with 25. Massa has 8 in his career. Pole positions? Pretty meaningless with the current qualifying rules. At the end of the day, the name of the games is points and Kimi soundly beat Massa (and the rest of the grid) in that regard. Kimi is WDC, Massa finished 4th. Bottom line.
Go check the stats - discussed several times - and give your bottom a rest. Kimi won the dc with Massa.
Far. Apparently we weren't watching the same races this season. In the races I watched, he sailed off the track trying to pass a rookie, he wins just to end up outside the points in the next race, he sails off the track countless times in the rain and finishes 3 positions behind his team mate in the points. He is a good driver, but not WDC material. Just my opinion, that's all.
I'll let the dead horse rest, but I'm glad F wasn't 'watching' the same races you were, because Kimi would have finished 3rd or 4th. Likewise
I did not realize that the FIA awarded co-championships, is this F1 or the ALMS?!? Last time I checked that standings I saw Massa in 4th. Do you know something that the rest of the world doesn't?
Give it a rest pal. As phylotic said, this horse is dead and buried. Lets agree to disagree and look forward to the 08 season. PS: Not the topic of this thread, but it continues to bug me insanely that we don't hear anything about Alonso's 08 ride. I just don't understand what's going on. PPS: Once you get your BusinessF1 back issues, dig out October 05. A very timely read. http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=33327
Me too Andreas I wish someone would open their mouth and spill the beans. http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns19821.html We hear that negotiations about Fernando Alonso between Renault and Telefonica have not been going very well in recent days with there being disagreements about some of the people involved in the Renault F1 project. One rumour we have heard, which may have some credence, is that there may be more to Fernando Alonso's conversations with Red Bull Racing than was initially thought although there are conflicts over the length of the contract as Alonso obviously wants to be free after one season and Red Bull wants a longer-term commitment. http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns19823.html Fernando Alonso and Ron Dennis, while not talking to one another, are busy negotiating their future at the moment. McLaren has handed over responsibility for the Court of Appeal protest to Martin Whitmarsh, leaving Dennis free to sort out what to do about drivers. There have been various rumours but no-one has yet come up with the solution. Fernando's options are rather limited as he had been expected to stay at McLaren until the end of 2009 and thus other top teams are not really prepared to take him. He could stay at McLaren if those involved can get over the antipathies that exist (which may be possible) but when one considers the situation it is hard to imagine that Alonso would want to do that as Lewis Hamilton will get stronger next year and will thus be even harder to beat than he has been in 2007. While Alonso might relish such a challenge and might conclude that beating Hamilton next year might restore his damaged reputation, it is a risk as Hamilton might defeat him more comprehensively in 2008 and that would do him even more damage. Ferrari seems to be closed to the Spaniard at the moment, although some still think that the re-signing of Felipe Massa was a cover for other activities. Every driver, whether they admit it or not, wants to be a Ferrari driver at some point, and the only question for Alonso is whether or not he wants to go up against Kimi Raikkonen in a team that is in the process of being restructured. The option to go to Renault certainly exists but Renault seems to be having trouble raising the money and convincing Alonso that the move is a good one. It is certainly good for Renault, which needs a star, but the team's performance has been less than conclusive this year and Alonso did not have a great relationshiip with the whole team at the end of 2006 and may not have forgotten that. There exist outside chances that Alonso will look beyond these three teams. There has been a fair amount of quiet talk about a possible deal with Red Bull Racing. The team certainly has money but there are a lot of other question marks about the team's competitiveness. Williams may also be waiting to see if it can convince Fernando to join Nico Rosberg.
woulda coulda shoulda, every season is made up of a collection of little 'moments', that drivers can use to their advantage or screw the pooch. 99% of the time, the Champions find a way to make it happen. in a tight battle such as this 07, these little moments are hugely important. thus the difference between champion and fourth. at the beginning of the season, i said all i wanted was Massa to get the most out of what his car has, if he can't he should lose his seat. mostly he did well, but at those critical moments, he left me (and others as well i presume) wanting. 'racing' at top level and 'driving' well, are not the same things. nevertheless, bring on 08!
I heard he is going to be a full time informant for the FIA, code named rattone. BTW Im glad he snitched which goes to show that all snitching is not bad like the t-shirts say! I think he should be a bull fighter!
In this case the number '#4' ensured '#1' didn't finish '#3'. There is a difference between woulda coulda shoulda + fact, much as there is a dif. between finishing #1 and being #1. As mentioned elsewhere, given the current teams/drivers, the top 4 have an equal shot. If you think Kimi's better than the other 3 good for you. I don't.
Excuse me, but what Fcking Planet are you on? And how long have you been watching F1 for? I know your comments are usually full of ****, but this last one takes the HARD ON OF THE YEAR AWARD!
while i agree that all 4 had an equal shot at the WDC, i disagree that Kimi is on the same level with the other 3. Kimi kept his cool right till the end. he said pre races, that he's aim was just to win, and the rest, is out of his hand. Kimi basically ressurected in France, and it takes a lot of belief, will and motivation to come to the last race of the season, knowing that u have the outside chance of winning the WDC. i think Kimi was fast enough to earn this WDC. Alonso and Hammi made mistakes, as they both began to crack under pressure. but not Kimster. he's clearly the best this season.
It makes sense to me. Without Massa's help on the last 2 races, giving kimi the position, than Kimi would not have finished 1st. Even if i didn't root for Massa, i would still understand that. They worked great as a team. His point on finishing number one doesn't mean he's number one makes sense as well. I would have a hard time saying only one of the top 4 drivers is the best. They are all so fast. Although Kimi was crowned WDC, i don't think i can say he is faster than the rest. Some days he is, some days its Alonso, ect. The fact that there were 4 guys fighting for the win each race made this a very memorable season!
I said that the top 4 have a shot in 08 given the current teams. If you _know_ that's 'full of ****' and Kimi's clearly the best, by all means, celebrate + place some easy bets. Handing out awards for something obvious is unnecessary. Did you know the outcome of the 07 dc / brazilian gp beforehand?? I didn't and I kinda like it this way, so, given the current teams/drivers, I'm not buying into any myopic theories. Now, since you're flexing your decades of experience, BE has probably been around the block longer than you have: "And these days, you never really know who's going to win. The last race all three guys could have won. At the beginning I thought [Felipe] Massa in the Ferrari would. Then we lost him along the way." Andreas mentioned that a blick.ch article has Massa as the fastest driver. LH is talking big and big time. Alonso is unlikely to make a stupid move. And there are others. 08 seems open to me. No issues with Kimi nor Alonso, but I hope Massa wins.
+1 I'm a little surprised at the amount of conviction that "either you have it or you don't", when it comes to skills. What happens when you apply that elsewhere? Money: either you have it or you never will? A Ferrari: if you don't have one now, you never will? Sure, sure: any comparison isn't going to "apply" against mortared and bricked up opinions. But I don't need an F1 WDC to come out of nowhere, springing from the phone booth in tights and a cape. The ones that pay their dues are the ones that really deserve to win. Why? Because if, as you say, you're simply born with "The Talent", then what have you earned? You're simply following the path DNA set into you when your dad "knew" your mom. That's like giving a dog an award for piddling on fireplugs. "Talent" isn't an accomplishment. But those who work to learn their craft have strived and achieved something noteworthy -- something inspiring to others ... something that we want to award honors upon. Kimi and Alonso have talent. Lewis has so much PR, you can't tell what's behind it. But Massa has been paying his dues. I'd like to see it pay off.
