THE PRICES JUST KEEP FALLING DOWN ON 550 AND 575 CARS

Hey, I traded my Works Cooper S on my Superamerica, and my Maranello on my 599- it was only 365. Didn't trade because of the new style. Traded because it is spooky****tyfast.

 

Exceptions to the rule but I think you get my drift.

 

WELL. as Jack Benny would say. I at first responded to the above from your mail privately, but since you banter it here in open forum it leaves me no choice but to respond, publically, too.

what I sent you:

Obviously I struck a nerve which was not the intent: But, from the wording of your inquiry you sounded as this:
"is it common, to have such a deep depreciation from a used car off the lot [my words para...]"
Paddle shift = f1 in Ferrari terms, but not a big deal....... sounded like you were 'new' to the concept.
You took the advice of several friends, and were still surprised at what Ferraris cost either before or off the lot.
Such is NOT a problem with those that have purchased either these car NEW or USED.
All this lead me to believe that you are un-aware, and somehow I still believe such.
I DID NOT, as stated, want to slam you, but to helpfully inform. You sound new to the game, where a simple search from older members would show that what you asked is only not a mystery, but well know to be the case regarding any exotic non-RARE car...but you already know that. Right?

Guess I don't or didn't understand the true meaning of your original question.
As for cowboy antics of 'bring it on', let me just say, I don't appreciate intimidation at all.
If you are that much better than I, which isn't saying much, then more power to you, perhaps I'll ask advice of you someday.
but, you sure didn't sound such at the time.
good luck,

 

Did you say drift?
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REASON for responding to my own post is, blackdowndraft's, kind response back to me in a PM.: well done sir.

IN answer to a couple items you PM'd me about,
1. I do not feel the 456's have bottomed out yet. Regretfully. What I paid for about eight months ago for the 456, has now dropped another $5k easily. I bought from a good dealer in La Jolla, which I like dealing, and the car has proven to be exactly what I expected. There are minor 'issues', thus a Ferrari true and true. I see now the 456's are dipping below the $60k range, which I would find a bargain. BUT, there again, is the common Ferrari 'issues' to consider:
a. is it in order at that price: Usually not. IF you got a very minor issue car, and I could name the items either in alpha sequence or
in major concerns of the 'minor' issues area, I feel you would still be about 5, perhaps $8k? down to a concourse car.
b. if MAJOR issues [can name them too, such as valve guides, Major to be done, suspension re-works, gas/fuel lines filler area, seats defiantly NOT working, and the [god help us all] windows issues] then you would be down an easy $9-25k.

So, a low 60's car or high 50's car is subject right off the bat to another 'bunch' of fix-it-and-while your at it ..... ISSUES. yea! the Ferrari ownership.

NOW, I got a great deal...there were newer 456's with less miles but MORE issues that I passed: PS: Love my color combo, opted away from the shields [to me, wanted them] for it seemed they made the car ,well, seem shorter for some reason...perhaps it cut the flow of the lines...don't know...NOT DISSIN' shields...LOVE EM' but went my more subtle style.

I am SO, SO, VERY happy with my 456, I plan to just keep it...looking for a 550 or 575 too, ....BUT,,,,,gotta slow down the mental insanity for a couple months......just put electrical solar on the house..and, well THAT WAS a BUNDLE!!!!! whatever. take my meds.

the 550/575 will drop. Typically, 2+2 run about $10-25k less than 2 seats easy. The 550/575 are MUCH more car for the money. Currently went to FofSF and talked to B, there over a 550 stunning Titanium/Bordeaux...quilted rear-shelf, colors work RRRrrrrrrrrrr..

IF you wait, you can get a better bargain I feel over the next few months. Things happen during the Winter....taxes, Holidays, SUMMER and a new open top....people faced with the ol' 30k - 3yr rule thingie...and well, cars start jumping on the marked: I feel a lot, of Ferrari owner/part-time-custodians, are just a few months away from changing shells. These same people who have decent 550/575s are torn between Porsche high-ends [ya' I know, different animals] some British things, or other high-end profile Americans [seems they make some...vet or whatever]. What I am getting to, is, these people who are genuine car nuts can't seem to settle on just one Ferrari example they will shoot for and keep...me: I'm stuck,and I like being in this stuck spot. BUT, Currently listing the Mondial T; but I drove it all last week and every time I see it, I LOVE it. Almost classic looks with great guts, and it's mine....hard to express, now, I want to give it up...so. Probably just testing my lack of resolve.

the mid-late 12-cylinders [456, 550 575] will continue to drop for a bit. Maybe as much as another year or 18 months. I would NOT be surprised. I would NOT be surprised to see them drop alarming more, to say another $10k. Why: I feel the rock-bottom prices are only reached about the 30 year mark. Anything less is still depreciating.

BUT, As I stated earlier, I want to have this car now, and am willing to get it at THIS price because 'I can'. Not everyone's possibilities. Some can buy a Lusso for what amounts to a relative low amount of their income. bless them, wish I could, but am very happy where I am....becuase I can....I feel blessed.

Thus the other point. IF depreciation is a key, then unless it's rare, or highly sought after, the depreciation can go to zero, Ferrari or not. which brings me to the final point

I don't know HOW to specify when they reach bottom.
I have been trying to devise a formula of sorts. There is a value which cannot be regulated, but only measured: desire.

no, auctions don't make it, it is the lasting value of this desire that makes the number and in the case of the Ferrari, it consists of costs to keep it. The formula would be sort of, take zero and add all that is needed to make it a concourse car + desire + [maintenance to keep it that way for ever] = rock bottom.

I've always said, "buying the car isn't the problem, it's keeping it". I've put into the "T" 'several thousands' of dollars.....I wouldn't expect to get at this time, MORE than I paid. Replace the clutch, two belt changes, fuse block, A/C work etc. etc. and I would take a discount even today because of the d^mn rodent-seatbelt on the passenger side, and a small thing cosmetic here, and there..etc.

POINT? these cars EVEN at full depreciation require a lot of expense to keep them even at that price point. Therefore, Ferraris HOLD, THEIR, VALUE when done correctly: at any price. I don't care if the DIYers or the lucky few with their own shops or the rich can make that happen for [less?] pain. IT is a large expense and which keeps these cars at their [even if 'fully depreciated'] value.

-- I've just re-read my thread.....[popping meds now] gotta take more time on the editorial side...but, FWIW. rik

 

just buy the car. by the time helicopter ben finishes, $90k will buy you a used ford focus.

 

Last time I checked the Maranellos are a light Aluminum alloy body.

John

 

i'm looking for a nice private party car....fyi.

 

yes, the daily repos are out of this world.

 

Hell if you guys can't see a great opportunity. You will never see this again, dont hesitate, grap one now as the 550 is going the way of the Dino. have you seen a cheap Dino lately? Most who have one (550) , will not part with it and those who have express major regrets.

 

Yeah, Baby!

 

550 is a very nice Ferrari but far to many built.In Europe they seem to be going still down .Many cost 50000 euros (approx. 65000 dollars) they should go still alittle lower and be stable at $50000 u.s ,in europe they will probably stay at 50000 euros,the 575 is starting to fall I start seeing them at 85000 euros (110000 dollars), the modena is going to drop especially when the 430 replacement shows up.360 modenas seem to go slow.

Classics like 302 carb model,308 QV and the 328 ,testarossa are going to be the right investments at this time to buy.They are the Ferraris which are going up.

Then a few years later not so long the 348 spider and 348 gts gtb will start to move upways.

355 is steady at 50000 euros here in Italy and is a very very good Ferrari ,its still quite early to see prices but in 10 years time the 355 will be a real good car worth alot ,but it will need to be a low mile car (which is alreday rare these days) as 355 owners onwards started being daily drivers with all the better options and comfort.

 

You sure know supply and demand; you pick the highest volume cars or the cars with the most problems to appreciate...

 

I have to disagree with you. The 308 and 328, although passionate cars, are nowhere NEAR the 550 in any arena-- unless you are talking about bad ergonomics, expensive maintenance, and sub-par performance. Also, as far as I'm concerned-- others agree-- the 550 is much better looking. A very good number of Ferraristi from yesteryear consider the 348 a pumped up Fiat (nothing personal), and the new guys are into 360's and 430's. As for the Maranellos, it seems as though prospective buyers are starting to "appreciate" the 550's as they depreciate to attainable prices. As they drop, there is (and will be) more and more cushion slowing the depreciation because those prospective buyers are (and will be) converting into real buyers. Think of it as a slingshot-- the price drops, and drops, and drops a bit more (pulling back and stretching), and finally consumers "see the light" and start buying (letting go). It's bound to happen. It's simple supply and demand.

Tell me how many 550's you see at different internet sites for sale (ebay, autotrader, drautos) compared to 355's, 360's, and hell, even 430's.
Tell me how many 550's you see at different dealers across the 'States compared to 355's, 360's, and hell, even 430's.

If there are too many 550's out there, tell me-- where are they? Regardless of how many there are, they aren't flooding the market-- especially the nice examples. It takes time for a market to change (as most recently seen with the Dino); but I believe that the gears will start turning in the other direction as the machine recognizes the 550-- and then it will come into it's own.


Also, the exchange rate is closer to $1.45/Euro.

That means your 550's are around $72,500 USD. Considering the euro Ferrari culture, a very large amount of the 550's you are seeing are most likely driven with 40k, 50k, or 60k KM. Cars driven that distance will have wear and tear, especially from the quaint euro roads they are mostly driven on. The way you say "many can be had for 50k Euro" sounds to me like "many not-so-nice examples CAN be had for that price-- but most are still higher." Taking that back over to the US, where most cars have under 20,000 miles and will generally be in better condition, I have to say you are actually saying the price isn't as low as you or we think. ~$75k given the current exchange rate for a 1997, highly driven, pulling dashed, bubbling airbag covered, sticky buttoned, beat up 550. That's about the same as it is here in the states save $5k or so. A nice, newer, low miles example on the other will then command a price in the $100k's.

Every Ferrari buyer isn't necessarily looking for the cheapest example of a certain car-- some look for a keeper, and those who bought in that vain, naturally, aren't selling. Wait for the "ok" cars, the story cars, the "why is this price SO low?" cars to filter out of the system and you will be left straining to find a really nice 550. Add to that increasing Asian demand (I believe US cars are easily imported by many Asian countries), and foreign buying (which I have seen first hand as the dollar is weakening every day) and I see the flour, sugar, and water turning into a cake. Who says we can't eat it too?


Joe

 

Exactly.

 

I have long ago posted about the economy, so I will not bother to beat that again. To stay on topic, I must say that I am getting a high number of calls about cars right now. There are 3 or 4 salesmen out there who know I am in the market, and their volume of calls to me--with a lot of different cars--is telling.

Candidly, I had planned to buy something about 30 days ago, and the salesmen are probably frustrated with me. I have had 3 cars inspected, and have flown to Los Angeles and Dallas to look at cars. I plan to be in New York on the Wednesday before Thanksgiving to look at another car. In LA, the seller was very straight in telling me that the car had been driven over 1,000 miles in the last month, beause he was "leasing" it to someone (he picked up $3,000 for the gig). Any guy with a 575 who needs $3,000 is a motivated seller. Anyway, when I arrived, the car was dirty; the wheel wells were filled with thick dirt, the brakes squeeked.

In Dallas, where I looked at a SA, rims had a lot of curb-burn, and the alignment was bad (things that do not show up on service records).

In both cases, after leaving the car and returning home, the sellers called and offered to drop the price rather than repair these problems--telling me, again, that cash flow was a problem.

All you guys who say that people purchasing Ferraris do it with disposable cash and are immune from market forces are kidding yourselves.

With $100 a barrell oil (and there are only 42 gallons of CRUDE--unprocessed--oil in a barrel), gas is headed above $4.00 a gallon. (It may very well come down later.) At $4.00 a gallon, your food bill goes up (trucks bring food to your grocery store); your clothes rise in price (trucks bring clothes to your store), etc.

People will be squeezed soon, and prices on Ferraris (even Enzos--remember the days of $15 million GTOs?) will come down. By April, prices will be down 20% from where they are right now on pre-2006 cars. The smart sellers will cut prices 10% now and will be smiling in April.

 

Adding to Qksilver's comments regarding exchange rates and comment on wear and tear, I have to add that you cannot buy a decent 550 in Europe for 50,000 euros. I know because I've looked at them for the first 6 months of this year and I've seen exactly the sort of thing Qksilver is describing. A decent car costs at 20,000 euros more that the scruffy ones, and they really cannot be compared to some of the crap I've seen. My car was 100k Euro last June, but that is in Holland where taxes are high and it is a 2000. A 1997 car with the same mileage would have cost 15k less. I've seen very nice low mileage German examples for 85k - 95k depending on year (this was also in June).

All in all, this is nowhere near 50k. If you buy a 550 for 50k, you are buying a lemon. For a good 550 you will need to pay at least 70,000 in a private deal and 80k at a Ferrari dealer, unless you live in Switzerland where they are closer to 65k for a private sale. But I agree that prices will come down more.


Onno

 

+1. Best post of this thread.

 

I must be one of the rare ones who has parted with my 550 and don't miss it for even a nanosecond when I hope into my 599. I guess I made a mistake selling my 550 and keeping my Daytona

 

Interesting thread.
One of those with enough good, provacative posts to keep rolling through and boom, 1/2 hour later I am still reading and considering the info.
Jim, great chart, wonderful perspective so clearly displayed.
Hey Lee, any pangs for the Z8....?

I am one of the owners who miss the front engine 12 and although I love the crisp, light feel of the CS, the Ferrari 12's have their own music and language. And it is a seductive chant for sure.
Torque spoken here!

 

Just saw this thread wanted to chime in thinking of a 550 , looking at one over at Fantasy Junction (Bay Area Calif), dont know if its ok to post a link so I will not. However I am confused on many issues so I need help here, I have spoken to several fellow 6 speeders who have 550's and they all tell me how wonderful they are to drive, I plan on using this car 85% of the year here in S Florida. I am going to sell my 2008 CL63 AMG and buy this as an only car. Straight ahead I do not believe in buying anything and leaving it sit, I drove my 997GT3 everyday for 4000 miles and all my Porsches and past rides are daily drivers...Here are my 550 questions

1) Is this car driveabke daily, 6MTY is fine by me no issue

2) I have been told be several dealers on others to stay away from the 575 unless I want paddles as the suspension without the "handling" package
is not good very loose etc etc

3) I am seeing prices all over the car I mentioned above is 1998 7k miles and they are asking 117k yet earlier in this thread people indicate that 1998 car with low miles can be had
for less I am looking around and finding asking prices to be consistent EBay , Dupont, Dealers and other sources 2001 w low miles 130k-140k 1998-9 low miles 109k-120k?

TIA

-:Marc

 

If you don't miss it all, why do you still use it as your Avitar

 

Very nice. You and I move on. I loved my Lusso for thirty years. I said goodbye. I loved my 360 for three years. I love my 575M; For now. We move on. We love. We enjoy. I don't think you made any sort of mistake.

 

If you are already tired of a 2008 car and willing to part with it taking what will possibly be a major hit, then you will not be phased by what are usually the main reasons any Ferrari is not used as a daily driver....repair expense and depreciation. These cars are expensive to maintain. They simply cost more to fix than almost any other car on the planet. The more you drive them, the faster parts wear out. That's all. The only downside to the single car scenario is that you will need to take the car out of service for maintenance. Unless you do some tight planning, you will be without your primary vehicle for days if not weeks. You will need another set of wheels during that time. You will find it hard to find a buyer for your high mileage car, unless you tire of it after only a few months and don't rack up a lot of miles or you sell at a deep discount.

Good luck finding a 575 without F1. If you truly want a stick you will have an easier time finding a 550 because that is the only way it came. You must drive any car you are thinking of buying, as each one is going to be different. Do not rely on what a dealer who is trying to make a sale tells you. There is a reason that Ferrari sold cars with and without FHP and other options. It's a matter of taste.

No way to know how much any individual will deal. Each depends on the seller's circumstances. Like most deals, I think you will be in a better bargaining position if you are ready to buy and have the cash available.

 

Priced Wrong?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1998-Ferrari-550-Maranello-low-mileage_W0QQitemZ300168902591QQihZ020QQcategoryZ6212QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem