omgjon's Dino and its Market Value

Too low a number for a car like this.

First, how to attach a value to a Dino that will run for 25 years without needing anything more than routine maintenance is next to impossible.

Additionally, Jon's countless hours of work add value to him that no one could afford to repay.

Seriously though, if it was for sale, how could you charge less than $300K for it? great cars are in the high $200K range now.

And, as we all know, I bet $500K would not pry the car from Jon's hands.

DM

 

That is until the next one has been finished! Having learnt the leasons from this one, I've been wondering what omgjon will do with this one once he's finished the second dino that he's already stated will be done to an even higher standard?

Also, while I've snuck out from lurking - I've been wondering what happened to the Miura ?

 

This car has been extensively customized and historically that reduces resale value.

 

I don't agree, If I had ANY money and this car came up for sale and there was another that was all original I would pay more for this one... Sorry but I think everything that he did to this car has ADDED value and I don't buy into the snobery of customized reduces value... at least not here...

 

But to most people who do have the money it does reduce the value.

 

Extensively? IIRC Jon's modifications have been:
- removal of US side marker lights
- swap of US indicators to Euro style
- flares added
- repainted from resale red to it's original colour of Dino Blue

As I say the above is IIRC and I haven't time to go back through the whole resto thread to work out if I'm right. If that's it, I wouldn't call it extensively customised, and wouldn't have thought that the swap of US to euro lights and addition of flares would reduce the value much if at all. In addition, I'd say that the return to the original paint colour would enhance a car's value (even setting aside my bias that would favour any Ferrari in Dino Blue over Rosso Corsa any day!).

 

My thoughts exactly... this is a 100 point car when it is done...

 

I have to check I'm not sure the original color was this blue. The addition of the flares is the biggest mod if that is the complete list.

 

- carburettor airbox system removed and replaced by screens at horns
- interior changed, dash material
- Air Conditioning system removed, vent holes on dash remain

Cars on eBay with slight modification (like the Autosport silver Dino with the front hood vents removed/filled in) caused a big delay in selling the car and reduction in price.

 

Unfortunately that's not even remotely true.

Concours is one place where sticking to the original plan gets points, and modifying the car costs them.

Turn signals, side markers and headlights are all wrong for the car. That's a serious deduction there. (Don't have my chart, I'd think that's at least 2 points.)

Adding flares is a body deduction, assuming the judge knows how (or can) spot it. Of course, a copy of Raab's serial # book would pretty much take care of the question about if it was a flares car to begin with.

The engine modifications are at least a couple points. Carbs are changed, no air box, smog stuff off, A/C gone, etc.

There's more that we could talk about....

BUT, that is completely off the point. This car isn't being done to be a concours champion. It's being done to one individual's tastes. Find another guy who wants a rock solid Dino with no stories, and no need to worry about past history, and the other stuff won't matter. If you can't find that guy, then this car sits and doesn't sell for a long time, at least not for a good number My original value was based on there being a buyer who would want a car like Jon's, not on comparing it to other Dinos.

If Jon was forced to sell quickly, then all the work he has done is for naught. If he has time, and the right buyer, then the car goes somewhere it can be appreciated. Fortunately for all of us, Jon has no need or desire to sell. (If his posts can be trusted, and I think they can.)

If Jon had done all this work and restored the car to stock condition, then we'd be looking at as close to top of the market as we could possibly get, with plenty of buyers looking to cash in on Jon's hard work.

So, quick sale - $200K +-, perfect buyer $280-300K.

 

Would $25K get it to 100 points. Probably not.


Wheels, flares, engine compartment, exhaust, etc, would probably be in excess of $25K by the time you get the paint right. Then you'd still have work to do to get it to the 100 point milestone. The first batch of work would get it in the neighborhood.

I don't know what else Jon has done to modify his car to his personal preferences, and I also don' tknow how much of the original stuff he retained.

A/C and smog stuff are unobtainium and big bucks to get, and they're not even on the first list.

So, maybe $50K to put it very right, and that's a wild ass guess.

DM

 

i think, simply put, we could say:

cost of dino : $1xxk
cost of parts/paint/labor/material : $100k +
cost to be jon driving the car : priceless

i had a huge problem with what jon was doing as i had looked at buying the car prior to jon. it was such a nice, basically original, car that to see it "butchered" broke my heart. now i have seen what jon has done, my opinioned has changed about the project after seeing what the scope of work was and how jon has done it, my opinion changed.

it is nice for once to see someone restore a car to this standard for their enjoyment and not for a potential future owner. value is worthless currently, as the only way it would be offered is in the distant future. in order to judge value at that time is the magic crystal ball that none of us have.

you can't put a value on passion. this project speaks volumes about the level of jon's passion. forget 100 point scores or concours, it is evident that this car is built to be an awesome driver.

 

Just thought I would put in my 2 cents. When I got the car it was totally original, never apart. It had 24,000 orig miles and some guy kept it in his living room for years. I never had any intention of making it a 100 point car because I have no interest in showing it. I admire those though that go to all the work to get it just as it came from the factory. That is just not for me. I don't think I extensively customized it. I would say I took some artistic license. I changed the exterior to a Euro look with the correct front indicator lights, side lights and rear lights. I wouldn't say this is custom because that is how euro cars came. I added flares and tried to do them as they were done at the factory for no other reason I like the look and couldn't find one when I started looking. I wouldn't call that custom because Dino's came that way. I got original campy wheels and correct Michelin tires. So for the exterior I would not call it custom, only my car did not come from the factory that way. As far as the interior it is all basically stock. The only change is that I deleted the AC so I have 3 vents in the dash instead of 2. The dash material is the closest thing to the original that is available today. It is flocked vinyl with the vinyl pattern showing. The interior will be all original color ordered from Luppi in Italy. Nothing customized here. The engine is stock except for a few parts cad plated silver or gold that may have not been that way on the original. The engine looks so good I did a different air filter set up so the engine is visible instead of a big black box. Also I powder coated the valve covers aluminum and made new bulkhead heat shields because the other looked like they were cutout by a kindergartner also powder coated aluminum. All I really did was try to make things look visually better and to my liking. I wouldn't really call heavily customized. I used almost all the original parts, refurbishing them with new plating, powder coating etc. Most of these parts will never be seen. I'm not in it for points, only my enjoyment and have it somewhat unique. If I had made a close to a 100 point car then I wouldn't have anything different as a lot of you out there have that. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Some will cringe because it's not like it came from the factory, some will think it's cool because I tried to make as if I were running the factory and that's how it would of come out if I was. I enjoy ll the comments and take no offense. How fun would the world be if we all thought alike. As far as the value goes it doesn't really matter except for some enjoyable discussion. Thanks for everybody's comments.

 

Exactly!!

 

jon,

i think you were typing at the same time as i, based on the ongoing project, your dino will probably be one of the best driving dino's in the world. i can't imagine the thrill of knowing that.

 

I agree, and if I could find a car this well put together, again I would buy this one and not a garage queen

 

Way to go Jon!
John

 

Jon,

what you are accomplishing cannot be described by words or pictures... you are doing this from your heart. An incredible passion for what is the most beautiful car ever made. In my opinion you did not customize - you simply picked options that Enzo had made available to all those lucky enough to order one from the factory.

Trust me when I say that Enzo would be proud, as he was of his son... Dino.

Enjoy in good health.

Pietro
S/N 01296

 

If it looks like a Dino, smells like a Dino, feels like a Dino and DRIVES like a Dino, then who cares what a concours judge would say? I paid up to buy a completely original low-mileage car to avoid discovering terrible modifications or other people's mistakes later on. I also just don't care for the brand-new look in a 35year old car (if I wanted a brand new car, I'd buy one!). But, the psychic value of knowing a car is mechanically perfect, cosmetically spectacular, and that every single micron of the car has been reamed, steamed and dry cleaned is HUGE.

Essentially John's car is a brand-new 246 Dino -- the modifications are done as the factory would have done them to accommodate an eccentric client, only better and with current technology!

Is it the best Dino in the world? Assuming it has retained all of the driving idiosyncracies, feel and performance of an "original" car (after all AUTOS are supposed to be MOBILE) it certainly has to be way up there. Maybe not the best "original" Dino. Like with a great painting, its value is what someone with the means will pay for it at that moment. Not that many people will pony up over a quarter of a million for any car, so it's really a question of finding someone else who had the same dream John had, only later, and without the tools, patience and skills to realize it!

 

dino's are no different than ferrari's, there are no absolutes. i have always been amazed as to what people "judge" as being correct and original. the factory didn't have absolute standards in those days, hell, it doesn't even have them in todays world. my 04 360 coupe was ordered and delivered to me with grigio ingrid. all the factory paperwork and sticker say "beige". if someone was to to certify this car 30 years from now, i couldn't imagine what the paperwork would say.

having said that, the dino is a great car. it isn't a drag racer. to be able to enjoy it today as intended when new, must be a great experience.

 

...and when it comes to judging what is original, here's something to consider.

The last time I showed my car at an FNA event, it lost a half a point because one of my headlights was not exactly perpendicular to the ground. The irony was it was a NOS Carello light in its original factory drilled holes but the rest of the car was so thoroughly restored, something which was original was noticeably imperfect and therefore subject to doubt and demerit.

Restoring a car to period specifications for your own enjoyment makes perfect sense. Restoring a car to original specifications for others to judge, while no less noble and challenging, often leads to madness.

The value of cars thoroughly restored to period or original specifications is as subjective as the sellers and buyers willing to do a deal. I don’t get the sense that Jon wants or needs to sell this car so I’m guessing someone would have to write him the proverbial “golfers check” to shake it loose.

...Keith

 

Which would you rather have?

A 100-point car that stalls or drips oil, that has a shimmy, a chattering clutch, some wind noise through worn window channels, lights that work sometimes, and then markedly dim, etc., etc.,? I have one of these...

or

A Dino that one can get in and drive, starts everytime, everything works, with knowledge that every needle bearing in the foot pedal frame has been lubricated, that the clutch cable actuator arm bushing is fresh, that the handbrake mechanism has been rebuilt, etc., etc.? I have one of these as well...

I consider the former a vehicular Vanna White...looks good but doesn't do much; the latter Angelina Jolie...also looks good but gets the job done.

I have completed my restoration, doing everything that Jon has done, including building my own wiring harness with larger gauge wire. You cannot imagine how bright the lights are...everywhere on the car. How well it starts for lack of voltage drop. It is a pleasure to press down on the clutch knowing that every moving part has been cleaned, lubricated, and set right. And let me tell you about how well the brakes feel, knowing that every nut, bolt and piston has been replaced...this despite the non-original Aeroquip brake lines and the copper hard lines replaced everywhere in the car. And the lightweight foam now in the space under the floor, and the Dynamat completely surrounding the passenger cabin, including roof, door skins, front foot wells, rear firewall, all in an attempt to make the long-haul joy ride more comfortable.

Yes, I have one of each...guess which one I drive more!

Jim S.