Best Car Ever!! I have 96k on my car and 40k+ on my clutch. I don't baby it. Get one and will never regret it. The early cars are the best. Less to fix (computer controlled shocks and power steering crap) and faster then the other Diablo's I have driven (SV,Roadster,VT). Only complaint I have with early cars is the week brakes. This is a reasonably priced upgrade, but you do have to go with 18 inch wheels. Image Unavailable, Please Login
I agree with that for the most part. However, I believe I have heard that there is a space constraint on how large the clutch can be - is that correct? AFAIK, the Diablo uses a 10" clutch. For a car with AWD, ~500hp and big rubber, thats not really that much clutch. Actually it's pretty small. But I don't think they can fit any larger.... its just the achilles heel of the car. Compare that to a Viper GTS - 450hp, 480lb-ft, 335 tires and a 12.25" clutch. The Viper clutch is virtually indestructible, I had hundreds of passes on mine with 3000rpm clutch drops, never a problem. I think making excuses for the car of "it wasnt designed to drag race" is maybe overly kind to a flaw of the car. A sports car should be able to be launched hard without having to worry about killing a clutch. That's like suggesting that you don't want to brake too hard lest you cook the pads
What if I want to take off hard or snap through the gears at max speed? Not powershifting or 5000rpm standing-start clutch drops, just taking off as fast as possible - the same sort of take-off that an LP640 will do in launch mode. How many do I get per clutch? Doing that shouldn't prematurely kill a clutch, unless it's a weak part of the design. IMO I should be able to get a couple hundred spirited launches without worrying about a fried clutch.
That's an aftermarket affolter body kit mod The votes are in, the Diablo is amazing. As for dropping the clutch, from what I've heard, SV clutches (when geared by the factory for "street racing" ie take offs) are very good and study. I know that one burnout in a countach and the clutch was pretty much toast, but in the diablo's they made big improvements, espeically in the SV's. I'm sure some owners can verify this?
That is definitely believable... SV is 2WD as I recall, and would take a lot of strain off the clutch, making it last much longer. The clutch is still a 10" unit though, and a 10" clutch on a 500hp car with 335mm rear tires is not really what you would want if you were starting with a clean sheet design. Hey, I love the car - so no slight against Diablos, I just find it amusing all the rationales people come up with for a weak clutch design. And I have a slight beef with the "if you wanna play you gotta pay" attitude. I also hate that some Ferraris need engine out services so often. A very bad design that is not user friendly at all. Not a deal breaker (just like a Diablo clutch) but a definite negative against the car, and something I think that makes many people look elsewhere.
Here's some information from the Tilton (clutches) website regarding their OE size clutch for the Dodge Viper. Dodge Viper (1992-2002) Dodge Viper OE Diameter Clutch-Flywheel-Assembly (1992-2002) Package includes: 152-tooth billet steel flywheel 7.25 Series clutch (metallic or carbon) Hydraulic release bearing Hardware kit Note: Tilton Clutch-Flywheel-Assemblies for 2003+ Vipers are available exclusively through Dodge Motorsports. 56-800 CFA, OE DIAMETER, DODGE VIPER 1992-2002, 7.25" 3-PLT C/C, 1 5/32" X 26 SPLINE, INCLUDES HRB (1260 LB-FT CAPACITY) 56-801 CFA, OE DIAMETER, DODGE VIPER 1992-2002, 7.25" 3-PLT METALLIC, 1 5/32" X 26 SPLINE, INCLUDES HRB (1260 LB-FT CAPACITY) 56-809 CFA, OE DIAMETER, DODGE VIPER 1992-2002, 7.25" 4-PLT C/C, 1 5/32" X 26 SPLINE, INCLUDES HRB (1400 LB-FT CAPACITY) A 7.25" diameter clutch that will handle up to 1400 ft/lbs I don't think size is an issue. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
really? Best Performing experience for the money Best Performing experience for the money Best Performing experience for the money Image Unavailable, Please Login
Size is definitely an issue. A 7.25" clutch is not OE size for the Viper... the Tilton clutches are racing clutches and cost over $6,000. They will take a lot of power but that's a racing clutch, not one designed to be installed and forgotten about year-after-year as a stock clutch would be. The OE size for the Viper is a 12.25" clutch. Thats a significantly larger surface area than a 10" cluch, for a similar power level. Add in AWD and like folks say, the clutch is the weak link. If it were not a size issue, why do so many Diablos needs clutch jobs? People always say "they dont know how to drive" but why is it only Lambos out of all sports cars out there that seem to have owners who can't drive and roast clutches? IMO we surely have to concede at some point that the OE clutch is a weak link in the car. I would guess there is a reason that Lambo doesn't go with something like the Tilton from the factory. I dont know that reason specifically but I would guess it's because its a racing clutch and IMO not suitable for long-term streetcar use that many Lambos would see.
I guess I have to say it one more time. IF YOU KNOW HOW TO DRIVE YOU WILL NOT COOK A CLUTCH IN AN AWD DIABLO !!!!! I have 15k miles on mine with plenty of hard launches, not burnouts, and my clutch is as good as new. If you want to do burnouts stick with your Viper.
I'm just a Testarossa owner....who happens to love Diablos like everyone else who truly "gets it". I've only had the chance to sit in one of them, and I was impressed by how comfortable it was. When I pulled the door shut it felt very solid, kind of like a bank vault slamming closed. My girlfriend doesn't like Lambos.....but every chance I get I try and change her mind. Roytoy sells some great Lambos at what I see a reasonable prices - a stand up kind of guy. I've hinted several times at selling the TR and working hard to buy an early Diablo (I'm just a blue collar type)....I really like the 2 wheel drive ones. I can't think of any other road car with such "presence" as a Diablo. When I was younger I was a Countach nut....and when the Diablo first came out I didn't like it (I must of had mental issues!) But over time I realized what a home-run-hit the car is. Now there isn't any other exotic car I can think of when you say the word "exotic". For me to get an early Diablo...prices have to get below about $100k and I don't see that happening for decent cars. So if the opportunity comes along I may have to buy a project car. That's okay because I can do the work...parts will be tough though. To make the point of how the Diablo crosses barriers...in the fchat TR section Adam is working on his 512TR motor, and there is the usual interest. He also owns a Diablo.....and is doing engine work on that car too. There have been numerous requests for updates as to the Diablo! So even in a TR dedicated forum....we are still asking....hey.....how is the Diablo. Now if that isn't a testimant to the Diablo then I don't know what is.
PLUS a 100000 times I have over 33K on my 03 with still first factory clutch and no sign of going, 27K on my 2001 6.0 still first and no sign of going.. I think we hear it a lot for several reasons. 1) Dont feather the clutch out and half gas like a lot of other cars, let the clutch out all the way and THEN give gas..the car will actually roll at about 7MPH with out any gas at all. 2) So many are Garage queens, they harldy get driven and when they get started they are rolled in and out of the garage, in and out of a trailer..all these issues wear a clutch considerbly faster. 3) And the worst IMO, everytime I go to an event or just a gathering EVERYONE backs their car into "their" perfect spot..I smell more clutches and see more wear in this backwards jockey style driving then anything..reverse will eat a clutch 10 times faster than 1st gear...pull it in forwards and when you do go in reverse, give it gas and then depress the clutch and ROLL...I attempt to avoid as much reverse as I can.
No, no... doesn't last longer, just costs less to maintain. More money left over for the strippers ! LOL Shamile Freeze....Miami Vice !
I think you mean "if you know how to drive IN A DIABLO". I have hundreds of thousands of miles in manual cars, never burned up a clutch in any one of them, so I personally feel I know how to drive a stick shift. When one does a burnout, they are not wearing the clutch provided it's engaged. Whenever I've done a burnout I would sometimes drop the clutch at an elevated RPM to get things going and then maintain RPM to keep it going (without the clutch). The real problem is you don't want to SLIP a Diablo clutch. In most cars you can slip the clutch plenty without problems. It takes a delicate touch to slip it only a little but also get a smooth launch (it's easier in high-torque cars that are more tolerant of low-RPM clutch engagements). You want to get it engaged and dis-engaged QUICKLY with as little slipping as possible. That means from a standing start you need to not raise the RPM's too much when you let the clutch out otherwise you will burn it up. Same on shifts - don't want to do shifts with the gas pedal down at any speed, or the clutch will slip on the re-engage and wear prematurely. Its not about burnouts - it's about squeezing max performance from the car. If you try to do that, you will kill the clutch. No car I've ever driven, even the 600+hp ones have enough torque not to bog down from a just-off-idle clutch engagement. Every single one of them needs some RPM to store momentum in the crank and then feeding out the clutch lets you control that power to the rear. Thats how I can run 1.5x 60' times on street tires. If I did that in a Diablo, after a couple runs it would be a dead duck. If you assume a center (non-friction material) area of 5", then a 10" clutch would have 58.9 square inches of contact surface area for friction material. With a 12.25 (Viper) clutch you're looking at 98.23 square inches of contact area. That's 67% more clutch contact area in a 12" clutch vs. a 10" clutch. Assuming Lambo can source from the same suppliers as everyone else (obviously), then I would have to guess the reason the clutches don't hold up is the size. And I would guess that the size is related to a packaging concern. I haven't measured but I would speculate there isn't room for a 12" clutch in a Diablo as the designers made the car. The problem would be exacerbated with an AWD setup where mismatched RPM launches will always get absorbed by the clutch instead of the tires (since the tires would rarely break loose). Greg if you'd like to meet up at Epping in the spring we can do a couple of 1/4 runs head-to-head. I'll show you how I launch the Viper GTS to run an 11-second 1/4 in bone stock form. If you're brave enough to do the same, I'll buy dinner! (since you'll be saving for a clutch) No offense, all in good fun.
Thing is, Roy, doing the above isn't "not knowing how to drive", it's what you must do in order to get max acceleration from the car. From a stop, any of these cars will bog off the line if you engage the clutch fully and THEN floor the gas. The physics are irrefutable - moving that much mass from a dig takes time, which equals bogging down. In order to launch hard, you need to rev to around 3,000 and use the clutch to feed in the power as you floor the gas. Its pretty hard on a clutch, but it's the only way to get max acceleration. In a Viper, you can do that hundreds of times all day long without issue. As I understand, doing that in a Diablo will kill it in a few runs. That means the clutch is weak. Any clutch (except one thats not strong enough for rated power) can hold the power of the engine coupled to the rear end. What makes a clutch strong is how hard you can run it and how it takes that sort of use. If you want to run a Diablo clutch hard, you will burn it up, because the clutch in the car is not as sturdy as in most sports cars. Thats fine - I would imagine something like a Tilton replacement would last until the cows come home. But it is what it is - and it's not all explainable away by "guys who dont know how to drive" and "guys who feather the clutches". We paint this picture of old men who always drove their Mercedes S600's with the slushboxes and numb feeling who never drove a stick before, and they drive a Diablo and are not smart enough to know how to drive a sports car, and so they kill a clutch. That's BS. Reality is the clutch in a Diablo won't take the same use as the clutch in most sports cars, because it's not as strong. That's nothing against the car - who knows why Lambo puts weak OEM clutches in... provided the owner knows the limitations of the clutch they should be able to drive around them and get lots of miles from the clutch.
