599 no waiting

Andy in Beverly Hills has a black on black 599 with basically delivery miles available. There are at least 15 more 599 models with more miles being offered elsewhere to. Has the greater supply and the dire warnings about the state of the economy forced prices down at all? Is the price range still 465 to 600K for delivery miles cars? Thanks
CH

 

I've never heard of confirmed sales at $600k or around it,delivery miles were always selling in the neighborhood of $500k(or a bit less) and still are.....

 

In Germany premiums are even higher this year than it was back in 2006 and early 2007. And my dealer expects even biggest premiums for 599 GTB next year, beause supply of 599 GTB to Germany will much lower than this year. So this means that demand still is higher that suppy of 599 GTB. My dealer suggests that premiums for new 599 GTB ready to go from the floor will stay high in Europe until 599 Spider will show up. Best.

 

I thought these were limited production model runs? If this is the case of unsold models, sounds like the top end is hurting just like the lower one's. Prices then should be soft.

 

599 GTB is not a limited run model of course. But still demand for this car is relatively high and supply is low, that is why premiums are so high and not expected to lower, at least in Europe. But there is one major difference between 599 GTB market in Europe and in the US. We, here in Germany, pay premiums for new car, without mileage and first registration, but US buyers need to pay such big bucks for used 599 GTB if they dont want to wait. Correct me if I am wrong. Best.

 

UK market is still asking around list (plus options) cost plus 20% for low mileage cars, having said that I see some cars that have been around for sometime without selling. I'm hoping the market stays good for a long time as I've still a Year to wait for mine and don't want to lose my shirt on it if I keep it a while!

added, delivery for a new order now is currently Spring to Summer '09

 

Prices for 08 going up 20%, so markup will persist, perhaps less, but with new MSRP of commonly optioned car (322k or so) now will be banging 385 or so, and base of ?285 now ~ 340k? List is 12-15 deep here with limited allocations, and if there is a flip, the selling dealer loses an allocation of a 599. Not hard to track VIN's. If dealer selling, less of an issue, but shill buyers still out there (tech's brother-in-law, etc.).

 

Added info on price if it helps UK price from Jan '08 is £202,300 approx $405k with CCM as std, steel brakes no longer an option on 599 or 430, a reasonably specced 599 will be £223k approx $445k

 

This brings the 599 more in line with the SLR convertible which will be MSRP around $500K

 

Do you guys think the new price increase will drive the premiums back up to 500s, or will prices stay the same and the profit margin of re-selling will go down? On one had I would imagine it will drive the premiums for current cars up even higher since the demand is still there and it's hard to get cars, but on the other hand 500 could be a threshold. Any thoughts?

 

As the reputation of 599's grows and as long as supply to the US continues to be sparse and increasingly more expensive for new cars, premiums will rise to reflect market conditions. I don't think $500k is a barrier at all. Many potential flippers are holding on to the 599's as they are simply to good to give away for a less than $100,000 profit. Heck, I wouldn't sell mine for a million bucks! (seriously - I love it that much)

 

+1

Brilliant words. Situation with 599 GTB market in Germany is the same. We expect premiums even rise next year, due to even more lower supply of 599 GTB to German market. Best.

 

Honestly I couldn't even put into words how much I love the 599, it's not going anywhere!!!

Out of curiosity, do you ever go to the Breakers event?

 

I am glad when anyone here is happy with his F-car. So enjoy your cars in good health. I will be happy too when I will recieve my Scuderia. And I have put my name for 599 Spider because my dealer assured me that it will launched next year. Best.

 

I exited my place for a 599 Spider. 430S will suit me down to the ground I think. 599 is an amazing car. HK market is different because we have 100% non-refundable tax on the car and most people like new cars. Once you pay the tax you can't sell the car anywhere else. And the few people who are the serious players can easily get a new car from the dealer. America and maybe Germany are great markets - huge pools of buyers and limited supply

 

That is worth repeating. You buy a vehicle in HK and then pay 100% tax on the selling price? Can dealers trade among themselves with no tax involved? Thank you
CH

 

100% tax?

that is the stupidest thing I have heard a government do in a VERY long time.

 

US market is great of course there is no doubt about it. But speaking about Germany it is not so big market and if you want to purchase new Ferrari for personal use and have good connections with your local F-dealer than it is not so big problem and waiting time is not so long. But there are so many people from many sides of the world looking for Ferrari to buy and most of them are buying exotic cars from Germany, that is why German F-market is so great - almost quarter of total F-cars amount in Germany is going for export and there are many companies in Germany making good money on Ferrari export sales to all sides of the world. For example me - I am from East Europe myself and DO NOT have official F-dealer in my country and I purchase all my exotic cars, Ferraris included, from Germany. Best.

 

Why is that stupid? Do you have any idea how much money they bring in out of this? The initial intention was to slow down the car population growth; theoratically, its a win-win situation for the government. It certainly does not seem to affect the exotic car sector... RR and Fcar population seems to be increasing day by day..

The only stupid thing the government did IMO is not legalizing LHD cars... US$6M of tax just for the Enzos in HK alone! Not to mention the other LHD exotics in HK..

 

With all due respect, that is the stupidest statement I have heard anyone make in very a long time.
Taxes on very expensive luxury goods are staples of government policy everywhere. They raise revenues very easily; they target wealthy people who really don't care about the increased cost as it is relatively irrelevant to them; it plays well to the electorate, most of whom will never be in the income bracket to afford an exotic car anyway; and from the buyers point of view it creates a real exclusivity in the market. It seems to me that everybody wins.

 

+1

 

As an entrenched market capitalist, it seems to me that there are very few situations where government intervention is warranted. Taxes on luxury goods is not one of them.

Taxing exotics at such high rates may not be as good an idea as it seems on first thought:
Lets say that 'X' exotics are imported into "Ferlambodia" per year. If Ferlambodia eliminated the import tariff, they would lose that revenue stream, but since the amount of exotics imported would increase to 'X+Y' per year, the exotic dealers would have to increase their staff, spare parts stock, and would need to improve their infrastructure at the dealership to allow for the increased throughput of exotics. The people that service and provide consumables for the added number of exotics would see their businesses improve as well.

The increased revenues from income taxes on additional employees at dealerships, expenditures on capital improvements and infrastructure that would be required to (which also create jobs), decreased expenditures by the government on unemployment benefits and healthcare to the unemployed, etc. should more than make up for the lost government revenues. This does not even begin to take into account the trickle down effect those additional wages have on the rest of the economy (the newly hired mechanic buying himself a Toyota to get to work, for example).

Ferlambodia's problem is that taxing those rich exotic car owners is more politically expedient than creating jobs for the middle and lower classes, from whence those aforementioned jobs as construction workers and mechanics usually come from. But the reality is that taxing the rich will not create more jobs and will not increase productivity or reduce unemployment- which is what really creates a balanced society.

Government's job is to create an environment where job growth, productivity and innovation can flourish while enforcing the "rules of the game" equally throughout the entire population, regardless of their socio-economic position. Populist tax and spend policies never achieve that goal because they invariably stifle innovation and competition. Why would Ferlambodias exotics dealers invest in their businesses if they know the market is artificially capped by exhorbitant taxes? Will the budding Ferlambodish entrepreneur work harder if he knows some day he will be able to afford an exotic? Or will he work harder if he knows that he will only be able to afford a Toyota because at some price point a car's tax increases exponentially putting anything else out of his reach?

Keep Ferlambodias government focused on protecting property rights, creating infrastructure, fomenting job growth and you shouldn't need that 100% tax on exotics. The problem is, elected government panders to perceived injustices and comes up with ideas that really don't make sense, but get them elected. Then, once elected they speak in a populist language while ensuring they remain in power for as long as possible while bleeding the national coffers through cronyism and, at times, outright theft.

The US system of government, as well as our economic model, has proven to be the most efficient and fair time and time again. Our biggest challenge will be how to stop government corruption and how to reign in the rampant crony capitalism that seems to be on the rise. Smaller government and even less taxation seems to be the way to go-hopefully we won't end up like Ferlambodia.

 

Spoken like a theoretical economist. Yet we live in real world where all is not equal opportunity and where the the same government favoritism that creates the unbalanced wealth to begin with, claims some of it back in the form of extreme and very visible taxation to appease the unwashed.

I am a Libertarian of the most extreme persuasion. I believe in no government at all, but that is unlikely to happen, so I will play by their rules and make the best possible use of the loopholes that the ruling class legislates for itself, and in return I will submit to the inherently unfair and biased progressive tax system that results in my being responsible for a far greater proportion of tax relative to my income than a manual laborer working for low wages.
In this environment it is easy to see that in less democratic societies taxation becomes even more of a tool of government to demonstrate their commitment to wealth redistribution. What they neglect to show however is how the system created the concentrated wealth in the first place. So in the case of exotic autos in Hong Kong the 100% tax does nothing to affect demand for the cars (especially given the already restricted supply anyway) and appeals to the masses' sense of getting something back. As I said earlier, everybody wins.

 

I wasn't just drinking beer and having fun in college, you know

I agree with your principles, but disagree with your methods. You see, you are treating the symptom and not the disease. What happens is that 9 out of 10 times, when the government tries to cure a perceived injustice, they end up creating one or two *real* injustices. Typically, the government squanders the money they 'justifiably' collected from the rich and the social injustice just gets perpetuated. Maybe instead of a 100% tax, the government should compel the purchaser of an exotic to give $100,000 to his charity of choice? Anything is better than the government sticking their hand in your pocket.

That just strikes me as Machiavellic- the loopholes are way more unfair towards the "unwashed masses" than any tax reduction can ever be for the simple reason that the poor blokes *think* you are being taxed more while, in fact, you are paying less than *they* are. It is premeditated deception. And you make a case for Warren Buffet's complaints.

And therein lies my point. Treat the disease: Crony capitalism, trade law infringements, labor law infringements, political corruption. In a properly working market economy, with unfettered competition and restricted safeguards in place for the unfortunate, the wealth imbalance should take care of itself.

Only the bureaucrats win.

 

I was talking to Ayn Rand last night and she said it did not corrupt my ethics or compromise my morality to pay high taxes and drive my Ferrari.