Alonso's fate gets complicated

He beat Michael Schumacher, Kimi Raikkannan and Juan Pablo Montoya on the track. Most people would describe those drivers as "competition".

You can belittle Alonso all you want but he did something no one, not even Schumnacher ever did: he was the youngest 2X WDC in F1 history. He won his second title at an age younger than Schumacher was when he won his first.

He came as close to a Threepeat as anyone possibly could. He lost by one point and clearly, had McLaren employed a #1 driver policy, he would have won the title easily. I don't think Alonso has anything to apologize for as far as his on-track performance goes. He certainly has less reason to be embarrassed than, say, a driver like Massa does, for example.

 

+1000

 

Senna - If Ferrari is so sure that Alonso is the future, why isn't he driving for them in 2008? It's not contract problems (you mentioned that they have no problems breaching). And it's not loyalty to Todt (evidenced by the removal of Jean from race operations).

That's the only answer I want right now. I'm all ears.

Peter

 

I didn't say he won't win beyond, I said PERHAPS beyond. He has about a 1% chance in 2008. In 2009, his ONLY shot is if he joins Ferrari. If that doesn't happen, he will forever be a 2x WDC and not more. If he does join Ferrari, he has a 50/50 shot at more WDC's. I've outlined why elsewhere, but basically he is not welcome at McLaren, and I doubt he will win any WDC's with Renault again, that leaves Ferrari and possibly BMW. Here's the thing... at the end of 2006, he was the hottest property on the pit lane. He was the the guy who beat Schumacher. Twice. His stock has fallen and it's fallen very far. Why? Well, first of all he was pretty well outperformed by his rookie teammate all year long. Second, now it has been two years since he won a WDC. By the time he is available for a competitive drive (in 2009) it will have been THREE years since he won a WDC. Also, who knows who the stars of 2008 will be? It certainly won't be Fernando - so his stock is only going one way next year, down. Meantime, Kimis may well go up, Lewis' may go up. Lets say Button gets the 2nd McLaren drive and runs neck-and-neck with Hamilton... suddenly Button is 'the' driver to have. Or lets say Rosberg or Heiki or whoever gets that drive - if they perform very well, suddenly THEY will be the guy to have. Vettel or Heidfeld may also come alive... who knows, maybe the 08 BMW will be a rocket and suddenly Heidfeld becomes the new Hamilton. We dont know who the 3 or 4 stand-out drivers will be for 2008, but we know one of them won't be alonso while he's poking around in a slow Renault or Red Bull. And the other component will be that he will get more and more frustrated, he will yap and yap about how bad the team and the car is, and he will prove yet again that he sucks as a team player. So if, for example, someone like BMW comes alive in 2008, will they really want the whiner in 09? I doubt it. Since others' stock is rising and Alonso's is falling, whomever ends up being at the top of the grid in 09 will have plenty options open to them, and Alonso's performance when he's not behind the wheel may become a factor.

In addition to all of that, if you look at the past 15 years or so, most of the titles are Ferrari and McLaren, with a few Williams, Renault thrown in - but it's largely Ferrari and McLaren. Ferrari has been on a hot streak for quite a few years now. McLaren has been close but just off pace a hair. McLaren is sort of due for another hot streak... they have been getting stronger while Ferrari has been getting weaker. 08 will likely be the first year for Ferrari without a lot of their top guys (considering a lot of those top guys' work from 06 helped F in the 2007 season). So if Ferrari do find themselves turning into a Williams and getting into a rut, LdM is not going to be very patient with his primadonna Alonso if that's where he's driving - he will lay down the law to him and Alonso will react in kind. I would not be surprised to see him at Ferrari for only one year that turns into a big blow-up like it did at McLaren. And lets say McLaren DOES go on a hot streak like they have numerous times before - they are due - and if it happens, then the only thing that can be counted on for sure is Alonso will never have a part in it.

I think Alonso will not win another WDC as long as he is in F1. I am completely sure Massa will never win one! I am willing to take any bet on that too, just like Ted is. How much are we betting? Name your price.

 

I see two options with the first being most likely:
1. Ferrari 2009-- Fernando is under option because Kimi's future is uncertain. They will not drive together which is why Massa was signed to 2010. Massa is a good, loyal 2nd driver. Kimi stated in interviews before his first race with Ferrari that his 3 years would probably be it, even if he made it 3 years. He has never stated any real ambition in the sport beyond winning the next race and winning a world championship. He does not seem to enjoy the F1 circus aspect of it. He now has what he wants, a world championship(and tons of money). He has the car and structure to go for a repeat and put himself in elite territory, then retire. Has Ferrari and his winning made him feel truly more motivated to stay on and have a long career? Time will tell. I like Kimi, and wish he would stay but do not see it in him and believe LDM was securing the future with an Alonso option.
2. BMW--they would love to have him and he may be interested in they continue to make progress. Alonso goes back to old friends at Renault for one year if he could, and then if the option does not work out with Ferrari, he can chose between staying at Renault or going to BMW.

 

why is everyone here saying Kimi's future at Ferrari uncertain. IIRC, he did mention pre season that he might retire after his contract at Ferarri ends. but now, he's the current King of F1, what makes everyone think he's just gonna walk away like that? he's got a good 5 years ahead of him, at least, unless those vodka slows him down a lil


i don't see Kimster retiring after his current contract expires. he's a champ finally, and i think that already re-ignited the fire we all thought he lost in the 1st half of the season. he'll go on to become a Ferrari legend.

 

Another thought of mine on Alonso. I was all for Ferrari signing Kimi a couple of years ago(the rumored option) because I thought he was the second best driver to MS and better than Alonso. I still felt that way when Fernando was winning 2 WC's. I still think Kimi is a faster pure racer. But this year Fernando showed another side that reminds me of MS and why he will win more WC's. He absolutely HATES to lose. Can not stand it. Not the trait of a true gentleman, but as we know in both sports and business, some people have to win, can not stand to lose, and will do whatever it takes to get what they want. Their drive and ambition are at a greater level than those around them and they win, although not popularity contests!

 

You could be right I also think this applies to LH to some degree he has a problem IMO when someone gets the jump on him.

 

You are correct. Yes these drivers are competitive...especially when they drive competitive cars However IMO, durring the 05 season and the first half of the 06 season those drivers, fortunately for FA, were not in competitive cars...hence, FA 2xWDC. It is interesting to see how FA handled actual competition once Ferrari finally got the tire/car situation figured out mid season in 06 isn't it? Let's see, FA was so competitive that he won a grand total of 1 race compared to MS's 5 while FA was arguably in the most perfect car of the season. You have stated that FA's behavior is irrelevent when discussing factors that attribute to a driver being WDC. So, I wonder what else could have been the problem? The 1 race that FA did win was due to the freak engine failure from Ferrari and argueably, handed the WDC to FA.

Once again, I'm not claiming that FA is not an excellent driver or that his driving skills/talent are not worthy of winning an F1 WDC. I just am personally not completely sold on his 2WDC's and I do feel that unless FA gets a better handle on his ego/behavior, he most likely will not win another WDC. Obviously, time will tell and I for one am very anxious to see what happens.

Please refrain from stating other WDC's that have won due to similar circumstances. I realize that FA is not the first nor will he be the last. I am discussing FA, not other drivers from the past. (hey, that rymes)

Too bad for FA that closeness only counts in games like horseshoes, not F1

In other words...had McLaren given way to FA's distructive, enormous ego and give-in to FA's demands of being made no.1 (even though FA performance was being equalled to and in some cases outperformed by his rookie teamate), then FA's 3rd WDC would have been an easy accomplishment.

I'm not so sure about that. IMO, FA lost the WDC in 07 in large part because of his inability to control his ego/behavior...that's pretty embarrassing.

 

Curious, you think a picture says it all? If you mean the one of Kimi and Fred smiling, I have seen photos of Alonso and Hamilton with arms around each other, and reality is 180 degrees from the photos.

Kimi and Fred are not friends, they are at this time "friendly". Certainly as they have never clashed on track they have a professional consideration, admiration if you will, of each other.

As teammates, they would not be friendly. Kimi may not show his disappointments when at the track, or to the press, but he is a champion and wants to win. As does Fred.

Alonso/Raikkonen would not be a good pairing.

 

Indeed it was... hence the use of the word "days" in my post. Maybe you should load up your f-car with all the hatorade in your garage and go trade it in on a nice c-class benz-o.

Uh, I would think the closest would be, say, someone like, maybe, Schumacher - that actually did three-pete.

 

Alonso won't drive for Mercedes next year. It looks like he'll have to go pick himself up a Renault, or maybe a Honda.

Peter

 

Yes, I'm well aware. *shakes head*

 

Quote:
"As teammates, they would not be friendly. Kimi may not show his disappointments when at the track, or to the press, but he is a champion and wants to win. As does Fred.

Alonso/Raikkonen would not be a good pairing."

Response:
As I said, your only experience comes from what your read and I respect your opinion. I have heard they, Kimi and FA, get along well from the folks at FAKart, Fonzo's karting company... I guess you call them liars?

 

FA had his arse handed to him when he left. This is pretty humiliating I think. He is a ship without a port and his behavior this year over shadowed his driving big time. I think his best days are behind him unless something big happens. His departure is a warning to LH. No matter how good he thinks he has it, he's just another driver in the big scheme of things. He and his dad could be played big time by RD and the Mcheater crew. Contract is the most useless word in F1, they only work 1 way and its not to the drivers advantage at all........................


'McLaren told Alonso: Be nice or else'
Wednesday 28th November 2007 - Planet F1

Fernando Alonso was effectively paid-off to put his name to a conciliatory farewell when he left the McLaren team in November, according to reports.


In the press release published by the Woking outfit on November 2 that confirmed the Spaniard's departure, a notably contrite Alonso was quoted as saying: "I continue to believe that McLaren is a great team.


"Yes, we have had our ups and downs during the season, which has made it extra challenging for all of us, and it is not a secret that I never really felt at home. I know there have been suggestions of favouritism within the team and people say a lot of things in the heat of battle, but in the end I was always provided with an equal opportunity to win."


The acknowledgment represented a substantial u-turn from Alonso after months of paranoid suggestions that the team had favoured Lewis Hamilton.


However, it has now been alleged by F1 Racing Magazine that Alonso was given little choice by to sanction the quotes.


'On November 2, Alonso, his manager and a lawyer met with McLaren and were presented with two options: go quietly, signing a press statement alluding to an amicable parting; or go through lengthy and painful court proceedings for breach of contract.'


By agreeing to the first option, Alonso thus became a free agent, available to sign for any team of his choosing.

 

Sad that the 2xWDC would have to be treated in such a dismissive manner.

Fred needs to shape up for his own good.

 

NP and good luck.

 

thats very true. if, IF, only he keeps his mouth shut and get the job done, he'll be on the brink of joining F1's best.

 

... and yet, absolutely amazingly all MS's faults have been ignored.

Alonso bagged out his own team on cheating because his team had treated him like ****, and yet MS who deliberately crashed into atleast 3 well known cases is an angel ... weird, fncken weird.

Alonso treatment by many on this site is equivalent to many who blame the woman for being raped. I wonder if the stupid FIA will reopen the cheating case against Benetton and remove MS's 1995 title ... now that I would laugh at!!!!!!!!!!!
Pete

 

No, my experience does not just come from what I read. You haven't been around here long enough to know. And no, I am not calling anyone liars. But I am saying that a quote that two drivers that have never clashed on track are friendly does not make them candidates for being teammates, nor does that make them true friends. Like I said earlier, look at the photos and actual behavior early in the season with Hamilton and Alonso. Even members of the McLaren team commented that those two were "friendly" So what? You are reading way too much into photos and quotes. Prost and Senna "got along", they were "friendly" around each other, until they became teammates. Alonso has indicated he intends to be the #1 for any team he drives, that will not happen with Kimi on the same team. Ferrari is starting the 2008 with two #1's or two #2's depending on your point of view.

Alonso and Raikkonen are definetely not off track chums, they don't socialize, only one of them drinks vodka. Their paths may cross at various events, but you will not find Fred and Kimi at some bar having a drink discussing the Kuma Sutra. Fred will not join Kimi (aka James Hunt) in a snowmobile race. They will not retire to the same yacht after practice. Their wives do not go shopping together. They don't go motorcycling around Lake Como together.

In fact, I do not think there any current F1 drivers that spend off track time with any other current F1 driver. Unless it is some sponsor event, or in the case of Renault, the team boss takes you to his bordelo in Asia. Didn't Alonso skip that one? Even Michael and Ralf did not socialize except at their parent's birthdays.

Alonso/Raikkonen would not make good teammates, especially if both were down to the wire for the WDC. If you have been following F1 for the last 30 years you would know that would not be a smart move.

That kind of pairing only works in NASCAR.

 

Kimi would rather ride with my buddy C. Ruske who is head of R & D for skidoo...

Lets wait and see on the rest..

 

Yes:
People blame Alonso for selling out his team. Well, he didn't: It was Ron himself who contacted the FIA. Alonso going to Bernie (the puppet master of the show afterall) isn't really going public. Besides: He gave RD a chance if Ron had let him out of the contract.

And no:
Alonso ACTIVELY participated in getting information illegally from Ferrari. There the rape analogy breaks down. He is guilty of participation. Unlike Hamilton (so it seems at least from all we know).

That still doesn't justify the hate posts he gets on here, but all that will change once he sits in a Ferrari.

Look at it this way: Imagine a world in which MS had never driven for Ferrari, but e.g. had gone to McLaren-Mercedes (not unthinkable as Mercedes brought him into the big league of Group C). I'm 100% certain all the bad stuff he did over his racing career would be described here painstakingly and if he had won say 5 titles, people would still challenge him for being "the greatest".

 

The last great and true friendship in F1 was Senna and Berger imho. I pray to the god's above that Alonso never get's a ride at Ferrari. Yes is a very talented driver and before this year's debacle I would have welcomed him at Ferrari but not now.

 

You are right...

...Michael was a growing mith after Senna died, Ferrari, an institution, a Legend that needed polish...what came out is an ICON, indivisible, true, pure, full of meaning in one mental image...like the the STP 43 from Petty, everything was good, everything was shinny...he is the sport icon....Icons are born to be worshiped, not questioned...and Ferrari knows a thing or two about building and selling icons...they are the only car company that lives out of exclusively making icons.

And Im glad Shumi is an Icon riding the Ferrari stallion instead of the McLaren wave...but I can see pass the golden shell and remember his dark side...

Its all part of the game...I even like him because he was not that a nice guy...Rubens is a Good guy, Fisichella is a good guy.

But certainly not WDC.

Alonso is not a that a nice guy either...and is a 2xWDC...but he lacks the charm, charisma, and cool-strong mind Schumi had in a nail...he just reacts like a madman, regardless of anything....much like a stabed Bull...he will ram a concrete wall.

He hasnt learned a single lesson about loyalty or self control...and that may well be his doom.

 

Interesting comment, because the MS I watched was as weak minded as any driver I have ever watched. That is why he needed to usually have a comfortable lead into the final races of the season.

In the late 90's he wasted a few WDC winning opportunities for crazy pressure related mistakes, ie:
1. Loosing it at Adelaide in '94 after finally breaking Hill and pulling out a small lead. Man that was one of the best races on F1 time IMO, rivetting. Yes he still got this WDC ... should he have?
2. Crashing into Coulthard at Spa (was that 96?) when all he had to do was cruise and wait for a easier passing opportunity, or heck follow him home. Stewart, Lauda and Prost would never have made that mistake.
3. Crumbling under pressure at the last race of the '97 season so that JV was able to catch up ... nobody but MS caused that. This resulted in the infamous contact.
4. Stalling the car on the grid for Suzuka in '98 (?).
5. Crashing off at Silverstone in '99 (?) when he completely balls the start (another MS trademark) and then trying an absolutely crazy move that was never, ever, ever going to work. Ferrari PR blamed the car but it was 100% MS entering a corner at way too much speed and miles off line ... could have been the car but his driving up to that point was like an eratic madman.

Cool under pressure MS was not ... but he did improve once he got a couple of Ferrari WDC under his belt and the car/Bridgestone tyres were massively dominant (but then was he still under pressure?).
Pete