Interesting development, found the problem

I have finally got around to take the engine out on the TS. It was making a rattling noise similar to "rocks in a tin can" when idling, I did an engine out thinking it was a tensioner bearing and after doing belts bearing etc.. and buttoning everything up the car still made the same noise ;( So I took the engine out again and pull the oil pan out and guess what I found... It looks like the oil tensioner broke! Does anyone have a picture of the "before" to make sure I don't have any the parts loose still in the engine?
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What does the oil tensioner do?

 

Is that a tensioner on the oil pump chain?

And you took the engine out twice? I thought I was crazy taking the clutch housing off twice (first just replaced triple seals, then did the disk / pressure plate)...

 

Yikes - this is scary on several levels. It's obvious that your oil pump drive chain tensioner has disintegrated - but how did that spring get into the sump? That doesn't appear to be part of the tensioner, it looks like the spring that is supposed to be on the pressure regulating valve. Did someone remove the cap from the bottom of the sump and let the spring fall out of the pump?

I'll attach a picture of the oil pump drive chain mechanism, taken from the Schruf book. There are two tensioners, both attached to the inside of the front engine cover. There is a fixed tensioner and an adjustable tensioner, the chain runs between them. You are going to have to remove the front cover to assess the damage - not an easy job. You probably need both tensioners and a chain. There is a brief description of the installation procedure in the workshop manual.

Keep us posted - sorry to see this happen!

Edit: Looking at the diagram, I guess if you remove the sump from the engine, there is nothing to hold the spring into the pump, so it will fall into the sump. I haven't done this job before, I'm just looking at the pictures.
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The exact same thing can happen to the 360 as well. I saw one with the sump of only last week with the same problem.

 

I had to have mine replaced during the 30K service. Apparently there is a TSB out for early 348s to change the tensioner. I touched both old and new style, different plastic/rubber feeling. New one supposedly does not wear out as easily. You can see some more pics here http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=137072715&postcount=53 and the full thread here http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=165449&highlight=30K+good+news&page=3

Be warned that that stupid little part is over $500 on its own maybe even close to $750.... I can dig up the invoice if it helps, but I was in complete shock on that one.

 

Eric -

Yes, there are many updates to that. Mine was done this year too. I have emailed jagbuff about some additional details that should be considered when changing those items. (Richard and Fernando I'm certain got yours all squared away!)

Here is the TSB:
http://www.ricambiamerica.com/product_info.php?products_id=261292
(click the yucky image on top to read the details)

In a nutshell, anyone going into that oil pump would be advised to change the lower driven gear too:
http://www.ricambiamerica.com/product_info.php?products_id=199975

The chain, for a few extra bucks, should be swapped as well.

All of the above listed items are dependent on engine number of the car. They shouldn't be ordered on-line without consulting us first, or making sure the necessary digits have been read off engine.
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Yup this got changed too, mine was out of round.....

 

Thanks for the input guys. I guess my car did not make the update even though it is a 92. I was hoping to just replace the tensioner without having to crack open the front case, that's a bummer! I am so piled up with other stuff I really wonder when I am going to get around to it!

BTW, I am getting pretty good at this engine removal stuff, since it is the 4th engine out in 4 months; 2 for the Spider (coolant leak that turned out to be a cracked cross-over cooling pipe) and 2 for the TS - thank goodness for the lift!

 

As i said this is not an exclusive 348 problem. We had a 360 in the work shop last week with the same problem. There was a heavy rattling coming from the front of the engine and it was this oil pump chain tension er problem.

 

Question - where is the engine number stamped on the block?

 

It's on the top, right rear, of the block. You can see it under the intake plenum, just behind the oil filter.

 

Was this an actual recall? or just something Ferrari would cover if the car was still under warranty?

 

It was a technical service bulletin. Not a recall. It is my understanding, when a car was in for service, that component of operation could be performed under warranty.

 

Was this also the factory improvement for "timing" made to 348's from November of 1992 on?

 

Does the 355 suffer from the same tensioner problem? If so, I will have it changed during the engine out as well.




Darrell.

 

Not to my knowledge.

 

Spring appears to be part of the tensioner system - not the pressure valve. Thanks for the pics, I guess I needed something to keep me busy during the upcoming Christmas break... well I found it!

 

I have gone through the maintenance records of the car and it would appear that the tensioner was replaced under the service bulletin back in 95 under the 15K service. Not sure if my car's failure is a fluke or something to watch out for once the parts get older.

 

Pardon my confusion about the spring found in your sump. Looking at the diagram in the parts book, I couldn't see a spring as part of the tensioner assembly, but it certainly makes sense that it should have a spring in it.

I hope that the tensioner failure you experienced is a random event, I wouldn't want to have this happen to me! There wouldn't be anything you could have done to cause it, OR to prevent it, as far as I can tell.
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Check out post #8. There is a good view of the spring.


Darrell.

 

Apparently the parts book drawing of item #64 (the tensioner) shows it in a collapsed state, where you can't see all of its component parts. The picture in Daniel's link helps to show how it works.

It occurs to me that it MIGHT be interesting to photographically detail the disassembly of your front cover, just in case you find that the tensioner parts and bearings are NOT the replacement type from the service bulletin. Perhaps someone made a "shifty" warranty claim and never actually did the job, in which case Ferrari should be required to pay for the parts and labor to do it now. You would have to prove that your car has the original engine in it, but that shouldn't be difficult. It's a bit of a stretch to think that the service campaign was done in '95, with the new style parts, then someone later put the old style parts back into it. This may not be very likely, but I'd sure look into it when you have it apart.

 

You can see the spring here:
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I'll make sure to take picture along the way. The tensioner is the new style with the white plastic surface not black, so my guess is that the updated part broke for whatever reason.