360 timing belts, whats the real story?

OK, I have searched FC for this topic but could not find this exact topic, so I know its probably been talked about before, but here it goes

I know Ferrari says every 3 years.. but what is the real story about 360 timing belts. I have a 2002 360 with 9K on it, and to the best of my knowledge the belts are the original belts. Here are my questions…

1) should I change them now or wait, if wait how long
2) should I change the water pump while I’m at it? (the local dealership says no, the company where I purchased the car who used to be a dealership says yes)
3) what else if anything needs to be changed when the car is apart and the belts are getting replaced
4) what should this service cost me, the SF Ferrari dealership quoted me $1600 for belts alone, the dealership where I purchased the car (keep in mind they used to be a Ferrari dealership) quoted me around $4500 because they said they change all the barringa out and the water pump when they change the belts


Sooooo What’s the real story, what needs to be done, vs. what the service dept tells you needs to be done to get extra money from ya?

 

I like how you say "I know Ferrari says every 3 years.. but what is the real story".

The real story is just what Ferrari says it, every 3 years or 30K miles. They make the car, therefore they set the "real story" as far as that goes.

I'm assuming your question really is "I know Ferrari says every 3 years.. but can I totally ignore them and do wtf I want with regard to the belts on my car" In that case, the answer is sure, it's a free country and you can do whatever you want - but don't cry to anyone but yourself if the belts snap bend all the valves on your $40K motor

At the end of the day, it's up to you. Here's what I can tell you. Many respected Ferrari mechanics say you should do every 30K miles or 3 years. The company that makes the belts for Ferrari suggests 60K miles, unless there is a time frame otherwise specified by the company producing your car. Note as well, there are new timing belts out, which now have a Kevlar lining. The manual suggests replacement at 30K miles, with an inspection/adjustment at 5K miles and inspection again at 15K miles.

The latest TSB from Ferrari, suggests 3 years or 30K miles, whichever comes first.

My personal view is that the "or 3 years" is a catch all for people who rarely drive their cars and allow them to sit. Doing them at 30K - while the belt company suggests 60K - is probably just to be on the safe side, due to the cost of repairing the 360's motor if something did go wrong. If you have a Honda, where the motor costs $3K to rebuild, then whether you do it at 30K, 45K or 60K - or 100K, the downside isn't as bad as it is with a 360.

I've seen belts come off 360's and 355's after 3 years and/or 30K miles that look just as good as the new belts that go back on. However, keep in mind, since you aren't always back there visually inspecting the belts on the Ferrari, if something does start to go south, it's quite possible that it will go south very quickly. I have seen Ferrari belts that were nearly torn in half also - probably due to a cut, etc.

As far as cost, the quote you have there for $1600 sounds more like what most people pay. The $4500 one sounds a bit high, even considering that they are changing the bearings and water pump (the water pump is something I don't personally think you need to do, especially not at 9K miles, let alone 30K miles). I would, consider replacing the bearings, since I think it's probably not a bad idea to change those while you are in there. On my car, when I do the belts, I plan to change the bearings over to the Hill Engineering ones. I would also check the tensioner brackets, since they have been known to crack. Depending on the year of your car and assembly number, there may be an outstanding update to the bolt that holds the left bank tensioner in place and/or the design of the tensioner itself (there is a new style that uses a bushing).

So, the real story is 3 years or 30K miles, but what you decide to do, that of course is up to you. Myself, if you drive the car regularly, I think an inspection at 9K is warranted perhaps, but a belt change may be a little bit excessive. Again, it's up to you. Ferrari does recommend 3 years or 30K miles, whichever comes first.

I'm attaching the TSB below.

Ray
View attachment belt_change.pdf

 

I can't add much to the above post other than to say that I bought a 2002 360 this year that had 692 miles on it. I knew when I bought it the belts had not been done yet. I was back and forth on the decision to change the belts or not. In the end I decided to play it safe and change them and move on because they were overdue. Now I'm glad I did it because I don't worry about them. Seems like a small premium to pay for the insurance... Brian

 

According to my dealer Ferrari used to recommend 5 years then went back to a 3 year schedule. Most people in Florida do 4 years. The problem is--If the belts let lose it causes havoc on your engine and pocket book.

I would not change the water pump unless it show leakage

You are due for a fluids change

The $1600 cost for belts is a good one. Ferrari of Central Florida has a special for a timing belt change , 360 Modena for $795. The belt change on a Modena is easier than other models the plate to inspect the belts is behind the seats. No need to pull the motor out as in earlier models. I think the SF dealer is honest in its recommendation to you.

Good luck!

Lee

 

Ferrari also recommends changing all bearings, tensioners, pulleys(all working metal parts) variators? every 6 years. So you will be due for this work in 2008.
Here is a Ferrari list of items due at 6yr/30k:

Oil&fluid
GBX (gear box fluid)
Brake fluid
Coolant
Air Filter
Pollen Filters
Timing Belts
Engine acc. belts (alt belt, p/s belt, a/c belt)
A/C freon & filter
Spark plugs
SD2 report
Preventive lube care
I-A
This total comes to service total= $7285.37 Individual total=$8303.51


If they change your gear box fluid make sure they remove the rear bumper and actually clean the gear box filter itself! Takes extra time, but don't skip this!
Personally I had my cam-variators replaced, pulleys, tensioners, bearings and belts for $3k at FOW.

Has the car ever had the fluids replaced????? another $800.

Good luck

 

Pay the money,and get them done. Do you really want to risk the consequences? Check the variator mods have been done, and the tensioner bolts, as has been mentioned. The water pump isn't driven by timing belt, it's driven from an auxillary belt, so unless it's leaking coolant or has play in the bearing, there is absolutely no reason to change it.

 

Found this on Eugenio's website...

-Why 3 years on the 360 and not on the F355 ?
Even though they use the exact same timing belt, there have been some tensioner problems on the 360 that should be looked at sooner rather than later. And because the F355 is “an engine out” endeavor, and has not experienced tensioner problems (that we’ve seen) we let it go a little longer. Also, the timing belt has been revised.

 

Anybody ever had a belt break on a F car that had more than 3 years on it and less than 30K miles???....

In todays technology it seems really odd to me that a belt would deteriorate in 3 years.

But if I owned a Ferrari service department and only sold 10 cars a year... 3 years would be my policy...

I hope to have 30K miles on mine in three years.. I totally agree with the 30K miles, the belts are working they wear out. I don not agree with the 3 years as long as the car is run frequently...

 

We can debate the need for a belt service at 3, 4 or 5 years, but when it comes time to sell the car, you'll wish you'd had the belt service done at the Factory recommended intervals.

Having just sold my year 2000 360, each prospective (and knowledgeable) buyer immediately asked me about the belt service(s). It was much easier to say yes, they'd been completed against the factory schedule than to try to engage in a philosophical discussion about why the factory is wrong and you're right.

There are a LOT of 360s for sale and it definitely helped me to have a maintenance book with all the right stamps at all the right times.

Frank

 

Not selling my car.... So the reality of the situation it is all smoke an mirrors to help keep our friendly dealers that bend us over in business.

Sure I love going to the dealer. Belts every 3 years and $100K over for a scud...

Someone has to do it but not me.... I Will post when my 2001 engine blows up because the inferior rubber on the belts melted after 3 years of doing nothing....

Sounds like you guys are brain washed... Next they will tell you Hillary won't raise taxes.

 

Brain washed??? I haven't said much on this subject, but I do know of a situation were the timing belts did fail on a modern Ferrari. Not my car, so I will not divulge the particulars, but you go on believing it can't happen and I wish the best for you. Me, I will keep washing my brain!

Robert

 

Perhaps Ferrari should stop making their belts out of rubber bands, because thats the only way they should fail after just 3 years...if dealer revenues decline, expect another bulletin stating that belts need to be changed every 2 years or 30k miles.....

 

Belts have failed within 3 years or 30,000 miles on new Ferraris and have lasted for 10+ years on older models so I don't consider changing the belts on a 3 year old 5000 mile car "insurance." Thare is ALWAYS the chance of a belt failure but if it makes you feel better changing a new belt for another new belt do it, I assume you would get some type of short term warranty from the dealer. Ferrari also requires that the dealer changes the oil using Shell Helix (at a ridiculous mark-up) or you void the warranty.

Selling a small allotment of new Ferraris every year doesn't pay the bills, the service department does.

 

I wasn't planning to sell my 360 either... but when FoSV called and said I had first right of refusal on an "extra" F430 they were allocated, I decided to sell my 360. What I'm saying is, at some point you will sell your car and you won't be able to go back in time and have the belts done at the factory-recommended intervals.

If you still believe all this is nonsense, that's OK... but I'll bet when you do decide to sell your car and you post in the FerrariAds section of F-Chat, the first question you'll get (because it's a 360) will be about the belt services and, depending on the year of the car, it's campaigns.

Take care,
Frank

 

So you dont change the belts at the Ferrari service interval. Previous belt changes are history, when buying a 360 whats important is the history of the belts on it right now, ie do they need replacing, when were they last done. Where the problem lies is a purchaser might think that because you skipped a Ferrari recommended belt service you also skipped an oil service, and thats not good news for the engine or the resale.

 

I'm curious, how much above MSRP did they want you to pay for the priviledge of exercising your right of first refusal? Around here FOW is notorious for offering their extra allocations to anyone who walks off the street or is a prior customer as long as they are willing to pay 50-75K+ above MSRP.

 

About $35K over list. As I compared this price to other, used F430 coupes (my car was brand-new with delivery miles and optioned to within 5% of what I would have ordered myself) it was a relative "bargain". I say relative because in the F-car world... everything is relative

Frank

 

I understand your logic, but I am a little car crazy... I will not sell my 360 unless it becomes so collectable that I cannot drive it. I have many cars, driving them is what is most important. I will have a 430 soon, but I love the look of the 360. It will allways be with me. My step kids can deal with the belt issue when they have to sell the cars to pay there bills....

I get your point...It is what keeps the F car dealers in business... As far as belts. Not sure why it matters for resale, as long as they are up to date when you try to sell the car..... It's not like missing a belt change has anything to do with anything unless they break.....Fluids, that is a different story....

 

well said. agreed.

 

+1 on the belts and I think receipts will cover an oil change question...

+1....

 

Well, since I am in the market for a Ferrari I guess that puts me in the position to express how I feel about the belt service.

So far based on everything I have read I feel that the Ferrari owners are very excessive. Very excessive in turns of changing all the fluids once a year regardless of mileage, excessive in replacing the clutch when there is still 50% life left, excessive in changing the belts regardinless of the miles.

With that said, I do feel better to buy a car that have been excessively taken care of.

But I wouldn't shy away from buying a car with lack of belt service as long as the belts has been done recently and all campions are up to date. But I will not buy a car without any service record at least showing fluids change. If I was given a choice of two identicals cars at the same price range I would definitely buy the car that have the most service.

 

If you buy your car from a dealer, any reputable dealer will have fresh belts on the car, or at least have them up to date. I wanted to trade my 360 up to a 430 and (of course to generate work for the service department) they said belts had to be done before it hit the showroom floor. Or, if they have not been done, you can negotiate them into the deal.

 

It's all horsecrap with these belt changes at 3 years. Ferrari only says that to make money. They had said 5 years at one time for some of the older cars. I have 3 F-Cars in my garage and I'll let anyone know if one of my belts break before the 5 year mark.

 

I am curious to know, which year, model came with the chain?
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b81/BRAAPZ/Single%20plane%20Crank/800px-360engine.jpg

Edit :ahh, i am retard.. its the 430

 

As far as newer generation cars goes it was the 1995 F50