McLaren clarify

McLaren have released a rather unflattering statement prior to the World Motor Sport Council hearing in Monaco on Thursday.

Read here:

http://sport.setanta.com/en/Sport/News/Other-sports/2007/12/06/F1-McLaren-statement/

Boobs. RD needs to take a very long vacation.

 

I didn't see anything that was too disturbing.........

Renault is still guitly of having confidential McLaren information and should face the same penalty/punishment/fine that McLaren had to pay( no WCC points & $100mill), maybe even more since it seem like the data was freely distributed by Renault and it's employees............which was not the case at McLaren where only 3-4 people had knowledge of the Ferrari info.


the outcome of this will have a great impact on the sport and the FIA's reputation.......and not in a good way.

 

RD, Whitmarsh, 2 drivers and Coughlan to start at Mclaren. A very high level of employee Id say saw Ferrari data or knew of it. Is Renaults top management involved? If not then I say they dont have as bad a fine coming. FA had to threaten RD with data he already knew about, whistle blowing id say to get him to admit it. Mclaren essentially lied about its knowledge of the Ferrari data. Has Renault been more forthcoming? We shall see, if it is as bad then by all means they should suffer the same. We all know the world would call for Ferrari's entire networth if something like this ever was charged against them.

 

...Im laughing!...I cant help it...from next year on...we are back to zero...damn!...Renault deserves the same base of punishment...if managing wasnt involved, then "rough employees" might bring it down a bit.But they deserve to loose the WCC points...not that they win many but...shame on them.

Every "BIG" team on the grid has that "common knowledge" now...McLaren, Ferrari, Renault, and is only a matter of time until the info breaks into the smaller teams...

We are in for a great 2008 season

Forza Ferrari

 

Additional reading from Planet F1

http://planetf1.com/story/0,18954,3213_2948592,00.html

http://planetf1.com/story/0,18954,3213_2948426,00.html

Interesting situation developing. The impacts could be severe or nothing , we shall see I guess

 

By Max's rules they are guilty by handling the data let alone uploading on servers.

BTW Ron contacted the FIA Alonso was chancing his arm..Bernie already knew whistle blowing no.

 

Wait a minute - just how do you know that? I've never seen or read anything that suggests, let alone proves, this. Alonso wanted #1 status, Ron said no. Alonso said he would rat them out to the FIA. Ron said "rat us out about what?" - when he learned the truth, he marched directly to Max and exposed the whole thing. To suggest that Ron knew about it and was trying to cover it up is an assumption based on no facts. And actually, why wouldn't Ron just appease Alonso and say "well, OK then" and save himself the penalty? Remember, back then the talk was that if the situation was found to be worse at the 2nd FIA meeting, McLaren was facing outright exclusion from 2007 AND 2008. Do you think Ron is so stubborn that he'd rather piss off Alonso and be excluded than capitulate? Even if the former is true, it shows Ron was acting in an honest manner, informing the FIA once he learned of the situation.

I know a lot of people on here don't like Ron Dennis, but he has never done anything that we know about that shows him to be a dishonest person. And quite frankly, I think attributing invented fantasy stories about what he did and calling him a scumbag is below low.

 

Don't forget guys, the FIA and Max very specifically said that USE of the information DOES NOT MATTER. They also said that intent to use was not important either - the important part was posession.

It is not shades of gray - Max made it a yes/no litmus test. Did Renault posess confidential McLaren information? Yes or no?

If yes, did the management know about it? Yes or no?

If the answer to both is yes (and it clearly is by Flavio's on admission), then by the standard that Max set forth and used to punish McLaren, Renault must face at least the same punishment. Its very clear.

Thats what should happen by Max's rules. What WILL happen (and I would put $$ on this) is that Flavio has told Max and Bernie that if they are fined $100mm or one of their WCC's is taken from them, they will quit F1. Neither Max nor Bernie want this, so they will look at what differentiates the Renault situation from the McLaren one, and they will point to those differences and claim they are what's important, and they will let Renault off either scot-free or with a tiny little slap on the wrist.

 

+1 Well said

 

IMO, the most appropriate thing to do is fine Max $100M for bring the sport into disrepute... and a lifetime ban.

 

+1 AGREED!! He will back track over this issue. he's already stated its brought F1 in the headlines....Yeh right for the wrong reasons the lights are on but nobodys at home..

 

I'd also wager that if Renault are guilty of similar level of McLaren, then what you said, plus a fat reduction in McLaren's fine.

It'll be interesting to see how/if FIA can unpaint themselves out of the corner on this one.

FIA have to keep Renault in the game, but they also have to apply the penalties in a fair manner.

Renault get 15m fine, McLaren gets theirs reduced to 15m, and they both will have to live under the ever present Ban Stick for two years.

 

+2

Very well said, Mike

 

Found a few interesting things after you accuse me of calling RD names. I didnt but read on.

McLaren were thrown out of the Formula One constructors' world championship and fined 100 million dollars because they had knowledge of leaked Ferrari data while claiming they did not.

More StoriesThe FIA's McLaren verdict
That is the view of motorsport's governing body the FIA, who have publicly released incriminating emails sent by team members a day after announcing their verdict in Paris.

The FIA cited a number of messages sent between the team's drivers regaring the sport's spy scandal, and in particular made reference to one sent by test driver Pedro de la Rosa to Fernando Alonso.

They claim this proves both were aware of the data leaked, according to Ferrari, by their former technical manager Nigel Stepney to McLaren's now suspended chief designer Mike Coughlan.

"All the information from Ferrari is very reliable. It comes from Nigel Stepney, their former chief mechanic -- I don't know what post he holds now," De la Rosa wrote to Alonso on March 25 in an exchange about the Ferrari's weight distribution.

"He's the same person who told us in Australia that Kimi (Raikkonen) was stopping in lap 18. He's very friendly with Mike Coughlan, our chief designer, and he told him that."

The emails conflict with McLaren boss Ron Dennis' insistence that the information never made it out of the hands of Coughlan.

Crucially though, there was no evidence to suggest that McLaren had used any of the information to further the development of their car, which undoubtedly saved them from any further punishment

Here is some more fantasy for you------------------ the part about 300+ SMS....Sorry hes the team leader/president...its his problem and he is responsible PERIOD!

Following a heated exchange with Fernando Alonso on the morning of the Hungarian Grand Prix, the reigning world champion threatened to go to the FIA with information in his possession.

Dennis informed Alonso to present his evidence to the FIA, before deciding to relate events to Mosley via a telephone call himself.

Looking back on the conversation, Mosley said: "Ron rang me and he said, 'I've just had Alonso in the motorhome and he says he's got information and he's threatening to give it to the Federation'.

"So I said: 'What did you say (to him) Ron?' and he replied: 'go on and hand it over'.

"I said: 'Ron, you said exactly the right thing', and then Ron said: 'But there isn't any information'.

"So I said: 'So it's an empty threat?'

"And he replied: 'Yes, a completely empty threat. There's no information, there's nothing to come out. I can assure you that if there was something, Max, I would have told you'."

Mosley maintains he believed Dennis at the time, adding: "Now this was a week after looking me in the eye in the World Council and telling me there was absolutely nothing wrong and everybody had done exactly as they should do, so I believed him.

"I've known Ron for 40 years. It's very difficult for me, when somebody I've known for 40 years looks me in the eye and says, 'Max, I'm telling the truth with complete sincerity'. You believe him.

"It was only when I got the list from the Italian police (showing) 323 SMS over a three-month period between (Mike) Coughlan and (Nigel) Stepney, (that I concluded) there had to be more to this.

"You don't get 300 messages arranging a visit to Honda. This is something serious.

My post mentioned RD as not a truthful guy. Hard to believe he is that forthcoming. Believe what you want. He said only Coughlan knew...oops WHITMARSH his #2 is the incriminating part of that um...statement. He knew FA, Pedro and probably the test folks who put out such tidbits about Ferrari weight distribution and pit strategy. Funny thing is RD is ALWAYS IN THE PITS.
The rest of my post was really about Renault and I was proven correct, lucky me, a reduced judgement as I suspected. Didnt mean to get you upset as you spout off on RD. I can believe what I want and I read quite well. The press on RD was damaging to say the least. Fantasy? You post the truth if you dont believe it so. The minor research I did to remind myself how damaging this was to his team is pretty obvious wouldnt you say? Max doesnt believe him and they have known each other 40 yrs. How long have you known RD or Max?