Why does the F40 seem so much more desired than the F50?

Not crack, a plate of butternut squash risotto and a bottle of 2000 Bordeaux (only a Robert Parker 92 though)!

As an M&A banker once said to me, "You're not even in the same zip code....."

 

There are days when I am quite confident I know him completely and then there are the confused days.....


Regarding the price, the seller maintains that the F50 is literally rarer than an Osama Bin Laden sighting in Manhattan, so it deserves a little loftier perch. the F40 seems to have elevated itself into much pricier digs these days (per the resident US F40 expert, the Hon. and Righteous - I have a reconditioned, not very expensive bell housing - Joseph Sackey) and the CGT is appropriately valued in your example, so you can you draw your own conclusions that the price point begins with a 2 rather than a 1

 

Interesting and thank you.

With your cited example of the F50's rarity, I wasn't aware of a market example so took a shot at it. My F40 price was chosen based on not knowing the exact condition of the car, so I felt it was a safe +/-.

Does the owner have his eyes on something else? Must be something special to be willing to give up those gems!

 

He does indeed. A real Ferrari, from the 50 and 60's perhaps, for all the money plus a load more.

 

Good to hear.

Wish him luck!

 

F40s that have crossed my path this year (2007) have ranged from $375k to $735k, with the ones I have personally participated in being $460k, $575k and $500k.

I havent had the occaison to place an F50.

BTW my bell-housing is the same old unit not a "new" one as you state, just re-surfaced on the inside and re-coated on the outside. Cost circa $975. Not at all "very expensive" as you suggest. However the overall work being carried out is another matter...

Joe
www.joesackey.com

 

When you are said and done your F40 should set the curve. I await anxiously.
BTW it looks like they are doing a very thorough job. I'd like to know, if you are at liberty to say, what exactly they did and what it cost. We all have to face these issues at some point. ( I amended the bell housing info )

 

Prancing 12 you are indeed quite close....But let me suggest that it is Nerd who is most accurate in his market assesment of the aforementioned trio of Ferrari Supercars plus Porsche interloper. It turns out that the Bordeaux has had a calming effect upon him and allowed him to perceive the slightly faltering market exactly as it should be.

Since numbers are being tossed out there with reckless abandon tonight, allow me to present a dispassionate yet realistic estimation (and I say "estimation" because all assessments are purely estimates until the items in question are closely inspected in the final analysis):

F40 - $575k
F50 - $750k
CGT - $375k

For the man who wishes the two Italians and will also adopt the German along with them, $1.7 is not only right on the money, but it is all the money today. This is because December 2007 is not August 2007 and anyone making deals with any regularity is well aware that the market has cooled - significantly.

Thats my position and Im sticking to it...

*running quickly behind a sturdy oak tree to hide from the poisonous arrows headed my way*

Joe
www.joesackey.com

 

The entire list of what they are doing is posted yesterday in the infamous F40 thread. The only item it appears I left out was the refitting of the front spoiler that the impatient Mr Allen managed to disconnect whilst trying to drive it on to a big boat...

The cost is as yet undetermined but as with everything I am happy to share it, once I have recovered from writing the check that Ferrari is waiting to collect. I had thoughts of selling this particular car because of another car I had acquired, BUT it seems upon reflection that this one has a unique history among F40s so it stays and the other will go. Hence the big service and lavished attention...

The basic 30k service with all systems included is about $9k. They go through EVERYTHING... then I have an additional list (including bellhousing, new AP clutch, etc ) which I will report on when the invoice is printed. Im happy to share it.

Joe
www.joesackey.com

 

Can the oak tree withstand the nuclear warhead headed your way?
If you can find a US F50 for $750K. I will not only buy it immediately but I will favor you with a 10% commission over and above. Your expertise, dear Joseph is clearly in the realm of F40's. I'd say you are tad removed from the F50 universe. CGT's as well, are routinely fetching $400K and beyond. It's irresponsible of you to whet the appetites of the merely well-off by tempting them with unrealizable prices.

I will have tangible evidence for you before the month is out.

 

Not at all. The only body part that is the same is the windshield. The chassis is 100% different as well. And the engine while similar, is a very, very different beast.

 

Correcto. I love the generalizations that are randomly espoused

Joe
www.joesackey.com

 

Just great, Sackey agreeing with my folly and thereby sullying my reputation.

 

Agreed you cant readily find any USA F50 available at that number. But on the other hand anyone who has had their F50 for sale has quickly discovered that collectors arent exactly falling over themselves these last two months...

The CGT is car that will react to the economic doldrums we are entering much more than the F40 and F50. Whilst great examples of the latter two with good history might withstand the market blues, the CGT will not. If some CGTs are selling for the number you suggest, as economic conditions toughen (and they are) those cars with several thousand miles will sell in the $350 - $375k range - some already do in fact.

Back on track, why is the F40 more desired than the F40? I think its rawness is a big factor. To me its an "end of a Golden era" car...

Joe
www.joesackey.com

 

There WAS Bordeaux involved... dont flatter yourself too much.

Joe
www.joesackey.com

 

Good question. F50 is much rarer, more advanced and has a removable top. All of that being said I love the F40 and like the F50

 

i didnt say the "same", or interchangeable parts. It was like the 308 as in being, its not a complicated car like an F50 or Enzo.

 

She is brutal (thanks for the twin IHIs tubochargers), and her design is stuinning even nowadays.
But the sound of the F50 is really unbelievable !

 

The market is a crazy thing and perceptions account for more than reality.
There are four times as many F40's are there are Enzos or F50's. It's irrational that a car that ultimately turned out to be a regular production model , built over a six year period is viewed as a special limited edition model. There are even more F40's than Challenge Stradales. Yet the consensus, at least on this forum, is that the F40 is a rare and desirable car, more so than the F50, CS and possibly the Enzo. Go figure.

 

fwiw, I massively prefer the F50. I know, I know. Enzo commissioned the F40, his last car, yada yada. But the F50 is just a better car, period. Who else would make a 60-valve V12 ?! And in an aesthetic, subjective sort of way, the F50 is more beautiful. But that's subjective as I said. I don't understand given the rarity factor [F40s were from '87-'92 with 1,315 built, F50s were '95-'97 with only 349 built] why F40s are preferred. Maybe just seems that way because there is a larger cult of owners/enthusiasts because there are simply more of the cars to enjoy, consequently more word of mouth? I know I'd take the F50, given the choice.
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It was Bordeaux resulting in folly, not absinthe resulting in delusion.

 

you have PM.

 

Yes, there must've indeed been some Bordeaux involved...

 

as a 20 year old college student.. the F40 is a dream car that one day i would be happy to even get a ride in... i wish i could own on but i cant see myself making that kind of money sadly

 

Agree 100%
No modern Ferrari was so close to contemporary F1-Technology. I'm a big fan of F50.

Why did they change the structural layout for the Enzo?
As far as I know, the Enzo has a separate frame for the rear wheel suspension in contrast to the F1/F50-style structure with the suspension directly linked to the engine-gearbox-unit.

Regards, Till