Technical folks: need help figuring out proper wheel offsets | FerrariChat

Technical folks: need help figuring out proper wheel offsets

Discussion in 'New York Tri-State' started by 348SStb, Dec 11, 2007.

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  1. 348SStb

    348SStb F1 Rookie
    Owner

    So my Dad's 2008 Audi S8 has 265/35ZR-20 tires on it. I am trying to help him fit slightly smaller wheels on the car to allow for all season tires and slightly skinnier tires so that the car will run in the snow. There is no company that makes all season tires for that tire size combination.

    I need help with the technical issues of fitting smaller, skinnier wheels.

    Using the mathematical formula, the proposed tire size that will match the overall diameter of the 20 inch wheel/tire is a 235/50-18 tire. The 20-inch wheel/tire has an overall diameter of 27.30 inches while the proposed 18-inch wheel/tire has an overall diameter of 27.25. That is as close as I can get to maintaining the stock overall diameter, so that is the route I seek to take.

    Now, here's my question: how do I maintain the factory specification track width?

    Since the new wheels are not as wide, it seems to me that the track width of the car will not be as wide unless the wheels are brought out with spacers? I want to maintain the factory track width specifications. I don't know anything about spacers and wheel "offsets."

    Will a greater "offset" act as a spacer? Don't understand the concept of offset.

    How do I proceed?
     
  2. 348SStb

    348SStb F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Is it really true that no one can help me?
     
  3. Dr_ferrari

    Dr_ferrari Formula 3
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Nov 2, 2003
    1,071
    Pocono Sportscar
    Full Name:
    Jim McGee

    Offset is the difference between the measured distance from the inside mounting face of the rim to inner rim edge and mounting face to the outer rim edge. if the distance is the same, you have 0 offset.

    offset is only going to help you with regard to the front and rear tracking of the tires. the diameter change on a 2008 audi I believe will cause more problem than maybe it is worth.

    Most newer cars are designed and suspension is tuned to the tire size. systems such as anti-lock brakes, traction control, suspension dampening will most likely be affected by this change.

    I would suggest contacting Audi and see what they think about the change.

    Give me a call, we can discuss it more this afternoon.

    Best regards, Jim
     
  4. LetsJet

    LetsJet F1 Veteran
    Owner

    May 24, 2004
    9,334
    DC/LA/Paris/Haleiwa
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    Mr.
    Are you looking to change the wheels or the tires?

    I could see putting a narrower tire with a little larger sidewall.

    Here is a calc I use:

    http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html

    http://marksink.com/tire_wheel_offset/tires.html

    http://marksink.com/tire_wheel_offset/offset.html

    https://www.rsracing.com/tech-wheel.html

    http://www.bigcustomwheels.com/rt_specs.jsp

    Edit: just saw that these are 20"s... I can see why you might want to change the wheels. Audi has some std. 18"s that would work perfectly I believe.

    Here is a set on Ebay that might fit with Michelin snow tires (Zero feedbacks might be risky)

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Audi-OEM-A8-A6-A4-17-Wheels-Rims-and-Tire-Set_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ43957QQihZ015QQitemZ250195919846QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
     
  5. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,825
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
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    Steve Magnusson
    #5 Steve Magnusson, Dec 12, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Even though the new wheels you want to use are a narrower width, you want them to have the same offset to keep the trackwidth the same (i.e., keeping the trackwidth the same means keeping the centerline of the wheel/tire in the same place). "Offset" is the distance from the wheel centerline to the wheel mounting surface -- i.e., Offset is ONE HALF the difference between the measured distance from the mounting face of the rim to inner rim edge (A) and mounting face to the outer rim edge (B) [to slightly correct Jim's formula] -- see jpeg.

    If the tire is mounted, measure "A" and "B" from the tire inner and outer tire sidewalls to the wheel mounting surface and use the same formula. Offset also has "sign" -- if A is greater than B, this is a "positive" offset (like shown in the jpeg); if A is less than B, this is a "negative" offset.

    I can appreciate your project -- I have a front wheel drive Honda with very narrow M&S tires that does great in the snow, and it's really frustrating to be stuck behind a BMW X5 with fat street radials that just can't get going from a stop.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  6. 348SStb

    348SStb F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Hi Steve,

    Thanks for the diagram.

    We are almost there; I just have one question about your diagram. I am confused as to what "B" is because the letter is just sitting there. Can you more clearly identify the two points between which B is measured?

    Also, say the 20" wheel has an offset of 40mm. Does that mean simply that an 18" wheel with a 40mm offset is going to maintain the same track width?
     
  7. 348SStb

    348SStb F1 Rookie
    Owner

    #7 348SStb, Dec 12, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Thanks. The wheels and the tires need to be changed. Please read my original post for the details.

    Attached is a chart indicating that the original diameter is for the most part preserved. A difference of .05 inches, or 1.27 millimeters, is negligible.
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  8. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2001
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    Steve Magnusson
    #8 Steve Magnusson, Dec 12, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    B is measured between the two vertical lines adjacent to it (I couldn't fit the letter B and the arrowheads inside the vertical lines on the original sketch) -- here's a larger detail that might be clearer.

    Yes, wheel diameter has no effect on trackwidth nor offset.
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  9. 348SStb

    348SStb F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Thank you, it is clear now.
     
  10. LetsJet

    LetsJet F1 Veteran
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    May 24, 2004
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    But there might be clearance issues with brakes / suspension, etc.
     
  11. notoboy

    notoboy F1 Rookie

    Jul 8, 2003
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    Dave,
    I was about to mention this. Do not buy a smaller diameter set of rims unless you test clearance for the brake calipers (front and back may be different, so check both).

    Btw, you shouldn't have any realy performance issues if the tire/wheel combination gives a similar outside diameter and offset.

    A good set of snow tires on the stock rims should do fine - a small change in tire/wheel width and/or diamater will not make as large a difference in real world driving as the type of tire you use.

    Best of luck,
    David
     
  12. darkalley

    darkalley Formula Junior

    Aug 17, 2004
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    Full Name:
    Jim
    Is there a wheel/tire combination from the Flying Spur or Continental GT or VW Phaton that will fit that???
     

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