It's about freaking time. http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/071213174450.shtml McLaren has proposed to freeze development of certain aspects of its 2008 car, after acknowledging that Ferrari secrets penetrated more deeply into the British team than was previously thought. With the FIA still to rule on the legality of the MP4-23 following the 'Stepneygate' scandal, a McLaren statement on Thursday revealed that the governing body's recent investigation did indeed uncover that "Ferrari information was more widely disseminated... than was previously communicated." "McLaren greatly regrets that its own investigations did not identify this material and has written to the World Motor Sport Council to apologise for this," the team said. The letter, to FIA President Max Mosley, acknowledged that the Ferrari secrets spread within McLaren further than its chief designer and drivers Pedro de la Rosa and Fernando Alonso, contrary to the team's argument at the September hearing. The World Motor Sport Council is due to meet again on 14 February, where further sanctions could be added to McLaren's $100m fine and 2007 constructors' championship exclusion. In a bid to avoid additional penalties, the team has offered to "impose a moratorium on development" of three separate systems that may have been infected by the Ferrari secrets. The letter to Mosley seeks discussions "as to a moratorium of an appropriate length" on the use of "quickshift, fast fill and CO2 as a tyre gas." Edit: FullText here http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/formulaone/42079/
Very interesting. So the "only Coughlan and Alonso/De La Rosa knew" argument was another lie... but do I understand that right? Do they say "let us use the technology we stole from Ferrari, but we won't develop it further"? Is that a joke?
I think the FIA will go after them again for blatantly lying to their faces multiple times. The FIA should freeze all development of the McLaren-Ferrari to compensate for the advantage they gained from using Ferrari's technology.
"Mr. Integrity" (aka Dennis the Menace) caught lying again. The McCheaters should start at the back of the grid for every race in 2008 IMVHO.
I read the head line on f1 live and i couldnt believe it... "Ferrari information was more widely disseminated... than was previously communicated." They have got to be taking the Pi##... I had given them the benefit of the doubt, they got their punishment! Now i believe Max Mosely is right; after the hearing they should have been thrown out!!! The only reason that they are apologising now is that yet again...the FIA have caught them out!
The FIA said, that if they find further evidence of Ferrari knowledge in the 08 Mclaren, the team will be excluded from the 08 championship. I hope they stand by their word.
They won't. Although I'd hate to see one of the top teams excluded from the new season which seems to be exciting, I think MCL deserve it now. How many times did they now swear they told FIA everything? Three? Four? I bet this won't be the last time. But the punishment will again aim at Ron Dennis and not at restoring the integrity of the sport. Edit: Exclude them from the WCC AND make them strip every Ferrari influenced part from their car, replacing them with complete redesigns having to start from scratch. Control it 2 days before the first race so they will do everything to avoid the slightest suspicion that the new parts might smell of a certain horse. If the new parts have similarities to Ferrari design, exclude them from the WDC, too, for at least 5 races. No more fines or anything which will not serve to directly restore fairness...
seriously, aside from the few die hard Mac supporters here, did anyone really think that any of the Ferrari data (info) didn't make it into development of the 08 car??? is Mc joking with the apology for 'not investigating better'...heck they just got caught, again, and they're now trying not to get thrown out altogether... what a sham...
Not being able to develop current technologies may hurt them more than you may think. The F2004 sure didn't do so well in 2005. It sounds like they may have to be using more MP4-22 than MP4-23. McLaren needs to put this behind them. One year of this is unfortunate and may make drivers/sponsors speculate, but nothing serious. Two years would make them start to second guess, and three years could possibly destroy them. I personally think they've done the right thing and should be allowed to compete. How useful is one year old undeveloped technology anyways?
http://www.spiegel.de/sport/formel1/0,1518,523226,00.html For all Max bashers (including me): According to Spiegel he said that the council should cancel its February meeting and just rest the whole affair, without any further investigation or punishment. McLaren also says that NO Ferrari data would be in the 2008 car, but they offered to stop development on fuel system and gearbox anyway (yeah, sure...)
this whole thing has just been blown way out of proportion. it's stupid to keep bringing it up. so they cheated, they paid, now let's all move on. the best thing to do is to start the 2008 season with a clean slate. there is more drama off the track than there is on. why can't we forget about it and move on? john
According to the McLaren letter to in regards to the FIA report (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/64370) Information was given to more people than previously believed... The FIA report shows no Ferrari data was used on the 2007 or 2008 car. McLaren apologized for it all and, McLaren will not have any penalties assed to it. They will run as normal. Sorry to some of you. There was no Ferrari tech used on the McLaren this past year or the car for 2008. The continuation of the meeting and "threat" against McLaren for 2008 was simply politics. Ron and McLaren bowed down before Max said that they were sorry and he in his benevolent way forgave them.
Not true. Technology was used in the 07 car and therefore the team was hit by a 100 Mio fine and loss of WCC points. If further technology is found in the 08 car (and it looks like that is the case), they should be excluded from the 08 championship.
Now then I wonder if this has anything to do with a proper court getting involved as in sueing Brundle..
+1 . The 2008 Mclaren uses similar brake propotioning system to F2007. Mclaren also increased the wheelbase on MP-23 after getting Ferrari's wheelbase from Stepney,although the FIA report said it couldn't be proved if they did that just from observation.
Will this admission do anything to quiet the howling in the British press? I'm getting a little tired of hearing them constantly decry the "conspiracy" to ruin McLaren.
Not the entire British press is biased. Some have seen the light and accepted that "one of their own" has cheated and deserves to be punished. It is too bad for Hamilton, but McLaren at this point deserves to be burnt at the stake. I can't believe they have continued to lie like this and were stupid enough to put Ferrari technology into their 08 car. But what do you expect if the same crooks are still in place running the show?
Could you imagined if Hamilton hadn't **** the bed in the last 2 races and won the championship, and now have this revelation??? Talk about tainted victories...thankfully it all worked out for the best... Mr. Brundle, would you like some fresh ground pepper on that crow?
Even if there is no Ferrari in the '07 McLaren, the whole season turned on Ferraris' flexible floor getting banned IMO. McLaren would not have known about this and therefore would not have protested it without the Stepney intel and the Ferrari would have enjoyed a significant technical advantage. It was never illegal as McLaren stated. Ferrari interpreted the rules, it was ok'd, McLaren sought clarification and the FIA decided to stop that direction of development. This is standard practice in F1, and that's whay Kimi's Australian GP victory stands. So it's a moot point as to whether there are specific pieces of Ferrari design in the McLaren. The intel gives you insight into how to fight your opponent, directions to look at going forward, and directions to avoid. That's why just being in possession should be enough to warrant harsh punishment.
totally agree Andreas, and as you said in an earlier post let's see if the FIA ACTUALLY stand behind what they said if they found more Ferrari info in the 08 car these guys were nothing but cheats, no integrity and obviously no intelligence at sorting their own problems with the brakes ... of course some of the apologists here will not see how the braking system imitation could have helped
Yes true. Read the FIA report. The fine came from the fact that the FIA found McLaren hadn't been as forthcoming as they'd originally stated, and that they employed Ferrari information in their testing. Nothing was ever developed for the 2007 car from the Ferrari documents. However they were found to be poised to use systems that could have been inspired by the Ferrari information in the 2008 car. Nothing will be found. THEY HAVE CANCELED THE HEARING. McLaren is by the FIA's standards (whatever those are these days) compliant to the article in question. If you care to wager a $100 I'll be glad to take your money from you. FWIW "McLaren were poised to use systems on their 2008 car that had been inspired by secret Ferrari information given to them by Nigel Stepney, the FIA's technical report on the matter reveals." The FIA had no real proof that the systems being developed were inspired from the Ferrari tech docs (more than likely) or from the regular spying (photos, rumor mill) that teams employ. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/64374
Brillant Renault get a slapped wrist, fined sweet FA doing the same thing and NOWT said..and yet again the boards flame up with the old same crap about Mc. Oh thats it Renault wern't in the running last season I forgot. Kick Mclaren out.. out for good thats what needed lets see Ferrari without any decent competiton..bollox Max Regeln
