totally! i saw that black 328 and thought about it, since i'm a cruisin for a new ride (328), and it was a good price. can't believe it sold so quickly! guess it was the price.
I am gonna have to agree with Artvonne on this one, but I would like to add something: Many of us have seen 308s with an advertised 25k miles or 30k miles, when we know good and well the car has far more just by the look of it. It is entirely too easy to unplug the speedo on one of these things. I don't put too much weight on miles on 30 year old cars any more.
A year and a half ago I was at a Ferrari function in Minneapolis, and among the cars present was a early TR. This particular car was one of the last to leave, and being opened up I was standing there looking it over as the owner wass packing up. He mentioned the car was for sale, and that it only had 5 or 7K miles, cant remember exactly but it was in that range. The drivers seat outside bolster looked in worse shape (actually beginning to split, beading coming out, deep cracks) than either of my 30 year old 308's that each "indicate" around 50K. In addition the pedals showed a lot of wear. I didnt want to bust anyones balls at the time, but if I seen it again today I would post the VIN and give everyone a heads up. People (myself included) have to start watching this garbage and policing it better, its just not right to have people getting stuck with stuff like that. The truth is that there are some bonified low mile cars out there that can prove a pretty good pedigree. But there are far to many others that cant, and far to many buyers that are afraid of higher mileage cars. IMVHO, these cars are, mechanically at least, very top shelf, and are capable of putting on incredibly high miles without showing heavy wear. But the hack mechanics have painted such a horrible picture of troublesome cars with mega-buck piles of repair reciepts, they have to many people out there convinced the cars are as fragile as the Gossamer Condor. And as long as the population equates higher mileage with higher fragility, super low miles will remain King. So stop worrying about miles and start buying on condition and recent repair or overhaul records. Anything major in the last five years will be lightyears more meaningful to the cars useability, than whether it has 12 miles since new.
One of the reasons for the low mileage that hasn't been mentioned: These cars are very impractical. You don't really use them to go places you "need" to, rather you drive them to enjoy them. I would never park my car anywhere...except at a friends or my garage. Anything else is asking for trouble....
That depends on how much you put yourself in hock for one. In practice, I found that the Ferrari often gets more respect in parking lots than other cars. Think about it: if you're getting out next to an Accord, do you watch your doors? Well, you might, but a lot of people don't. But then, a lot of people also assume that every Ferrari is worth a gazillion dollars. What do people think would happen to their insurance if they damaged a *Ferrari*? I had one guy almost break down in tears when he realized he backed up and tapped a Ferrari in traffic. (He scored a perfect bullseye on the touch-up paint on the bumper where someone did the same thing to the previous owner.) In four years, the EVO has gotten all sorts of dings and scrapes. But in eight years, I've hardly gotten a scratch on the 328 I didn't do myself. And I've parked it at the office, at the ATM, at mini-malls, at KFC, and even at supermarkets. (Although the EVO gets more market runs than the Ferrari, lately. The stores here aren't as handy as in MA, so a "quick stop" isn't as common as a "stock up" run -- and the EVO has the bigger trunk.)
You assume most folks know or care what a ferrari is. Thats not true. Less than 10% of the population (excluding men 13-50), care about ferrari's. Most soccer mom's in SUV's will slam their door into your car, just as if it were a buick. By daily driver BMW has 30,000 miles on it. It has been keyed, scratched, dinged, backed into, etc so many times I lost count. I no longer even bother to fix it. You really think the fat lady in the SUV will give your car extra love because it has a horsey on it? I doubt it. My Testarossa has perfect paint. Perfect. Not one rock chip/scratch/swirl. Alright, maybe the right rear bumper has a 1 inch scratch, and the sub-bumper has 1 rock chip . Thats it. If I parked it at the local mall, it would look very different in about 5 hours... And I don't think that straigthening cheese grates would be fun, or cheap. If my garage is any indication, a minivan door would perfectly smack into my drivers side window....not fun.
You think? Just look at the 2+2 cars from the 60's. During the 70's and 80's they were very cheap. Prices are very much on the rise today. The same will happen to the 400's. Give it time. Darrell.
Maybe in your town. Around here, they might not know what it is, but they're afraid to even walk near it. The guys will park a rusty pickup next to it (possibly hoping their vehicle will learn something ), but the soccer moms give it a wide berth. Maybe that's the difference with a black one -- if it's not red, they can't immediately figure out what it is, so it's more "scary". In these parts, the Ferrari is in more danger in traffic than in a parking lot. In parking lots, people at least look out the windows once in a while.
Low mileage cars are a curse. You pay a premium for them, and then you can't drive them. I have two Dinos. One with 8,000 original miles. I rarely drive it. Each mile driven results in considerable depreciation. The second Dino has been completely restored (by me). Every nut, bolt, shim, bushing, bearing, cable, seal, etc. I drive it all the time. I don't care about the miles traveled. Here is the question. I installed a new odometer during the restoration. The original car had 50,000+ miles. How many miles does a completely restored car have on it?????? The odomoter now reads 13,600 km (the odomoter I purchased had 12,000 km). If I were to sell the car (which I am not), how many miles should I say the car has on it? Of course, I would explain the situation - 50,000 miles on the original car, 1,600 km on the new car. Does it make a difference what the odometer says? Jim S.
+1 Great post!!!!! +2 I have been solicited for this 'service' too..... of which I said "no thanks!"...... Truth: there ARE dishonest people out there and its not that rare they would 'act' on it....especially when there is easy money involved..... +3 Its true.... I've heard more than a few car enthusiasts say..........."whats the point in owning an f-car, if you can't drive it?" IMO its a car..... not a painting......
$40k spread on a spider seems high. If it were an appreciating "super-car" Ferrari it would be justified. The trap is that you cant drive it or you shoot yourself in the foot on value. This is a depreciating model. I'd get the higher mileage one .The differance in value down the road wont be as much. As a bonus you get to drive it. Imagine that.
PS. I do have a friend with a 360 Spider. He is afraid to drive it anywhere for fear of door dings, keyed paint, loosing value, Etc, Etc. He wants to sell to buy a Porsche which he can actually drive without guilt. I compromised and bought a very nice average mile carbed Boxer, Not the nicest I could find but the nicest I could drive without guilt.
I am questioning the same thing as I look for a 550. If you buy it why not enjoy it ? Is the cost of maintainance so high that the car is not worth buying ? The frequently quoted statement " these cars are meant to be driven" does it apply to 550s I seem to be seeing a lot of them that have not been driven much at all and consequently need maintainance just from sitting........am I missing something ? Agreed a 550 is a bit much to drive to the drug store....but I plan to drive it 3-6000 miles @ year minimum.
All Ferraris are expensive to own. It just comes down to how much you are willing to pay. To minimize depreciation in your example, I would probably look for a car with a little bit lower than average miles, but certainly not an ultra low mileage. You should look in the 550/575 section for info on costs if you haven't already. Dave
If you plan on actually driving the car, a lot, buy a driver. e.g., One that has some rock chips up front and some miles on it. That way, you won't mind getting the next little chip or putting on another 10k miles. I bought my 550 almost three years ago as my daily driver. It had 24k miles on it then, and about 37k now. I drive it to work, to the mall, and yes, to the drug store. It's my "beater" Ferrari. ;-) The car simply rocks. Make friends with a paint bottle for the small rock chips and be done with it! Tim
I have to get a kick out of, AND agree with Pauls "things I have learned" post about Ferrari's coming and going. While certainly no expert and small scale by some members, I have owned 6 Ferrari's in the last years. What I have learned is mileage is a hollow marker. The, by far, most expensive car I have owned was a super low miles garage queen 550. After that experience, I learned that service history and knowing former owners and how they drive and care for the car is more important than low miles. So in repsonse to Gustan, the original poster, yes and no. Simply going by mileage can be very misleading, whether high or low. Mileage is just one indicator of many. But you are correct that it often has a heavy bearing on price and like you, I sometimes find the value of a well maintained higher mileage car offers the best deal if you plan on driving it very much. And as Martin pointed out, the enjoyment of driving the car is the most important thing for me. But, and I say this respectfully (even though I don't fully understand it), that for some, the pleasure is in having a pristine, low miles car to look at and hang around with very little driving. I had an interesting experience at Pebble this year. I was complimenting and trying to talk to an owner of a multimillion dollar car that was perfect, flawless and obviously a trailer queen. The owner had very little to say and what was said was of very little interest because of the their attitiude and lack of real knowledge about the car. Farther down the row, I tried again, with another onwer of a pristine multimillion dollar car. This owner stood up, made real contact and we had a great conversation, ultimately finding out I grew up, years ago, near their current home. Turns out their car was a driver that they used regularly, had put a lot of miles on and knew intimately!! Make of it what you will, I know I did!
+1 Let me guess: plenum hoses, motor mounts, a/c hose, dash leather, and on and on and on. A few years ago, I read a tax case involving Nike shoes. (Yes, I know. I lead a boring life.) One interesting point that came out of the case was that Nike does zero product testing. None, zero, nada. They just design a shoe and ship it to a place like Vietnam for production. If the shoe later starts falling apart after being used a few times, oh well. I strongly suspect that Ferrari works very much in the same way. As a micro player, they simply do not have the resources to test their cars before selling them to you and me. When you combine this with Ferrari's propensity to use unbelievably cheap parts in critical places (like a POS water hose that runs under the intake manifold on a 550), the results can be, shall we say, unfortunate for the owners of these cars after the warranty runs out. So here is my advice: 1. If you are looking at a out-of-warranty car, I would want to see at least 10k miles and all repair tickets since the born on date. Hopefully, all the production bugs will be worked out by that point. 2. Given a choice, always buy the latest years in a model run. That is, all things being equal, a 2001-550 is bound to be a better car than a 1997-550. Similarly, the odds are that a 2004-360 will be a better car than a 1999-360. Dale
