All aboard! Looks like we're heading for Dino-country (price-wise)....
All aboard! Looks like we're heading for Dino-country (price-wise). http://www.bonhams.com/cgi-bin/public.sh/pubweb/publicSite.r?sContinent=EUR&screen=lotdetailsNoFlash&iSaleItemNo=3792866&iSaleNo=15485 Granted, the car (ninety-nine kilometers on the clock) is an absolute time capsule. However, the market has spoken, and said yes, there are people willing to pay 100k+ for a 3x8. The time when one pays six-figs for a 3x8 is closer than we think. Thoughts? AP
Great find and very encouraging for 3x8 owners everywhere. Barrett Jackson in Jan 08, has a 328 scheduled for auction, that will be interesting as well. I don't think it's a time capsule car though.
Of course, it helps that your dollar has devaluated so much, plus Ferraris (and cars in general) are so much more expensive on this side of the pond... A year ago, I paid market value for my 308 GT4. At today's exchange rate, I paid the equivalent of $ 47,000!!! And already, I could sell it for a profit... The other day, I saw a nice 308 GTBi QV for sale. Nothing really fancy, just a nice, red GTB. Asking price: 39,000 euro, or $ 56,500. Recently a Vetroresina was offered for close to $100K. Again, a very nice car, but nothing really exceptional, other than being a Vetroresina. If you are talking about THE market that has spoken, consider that there is a market in Europe and a market in the US. VERY different. Hans P.S. Why we don't buy up all your F cars then? We have to pay importing tax (around 3%) , VAT (call it sales tax) (on average 20%) and in some cases luxury tax on imports. Plus of course, the cost of shipping (also subject to these same taxes). And so a $30K car all of a sudden becomes a 30,000 EURO car, which comes close to our market values. And - like most - we too like the Euro versions better than the US versions
Good point, Hans. The US and Euro markets are different but it really wasn't too long ago when there was a 1:1 ratio between USD:EURO. (Incidentally, the bidding at Bonhams was in Swiss Francs and as of today 1 Swiss franc = 0.868508 U.S. dollars) I didn't really follow prices back then but when 1USD=1EURO did prices for Fcars (in Euros) tend to be about the same as they are now? The stronger Euro certainly helps magnify the cost in USD. Whether it is Euros, USD, or CHF (all are pretty close together in value for this exercise) the six-figure threshold for these cars has been crossed on all fronts. It's the car enthusiast's version of the 4-minute mile -- it's a barrier once thought that could not be broken, esp. by "lowly" 3x8s. All over these boards everyone's been saying it wouldn't happen for another 10, 15, 20 years! I love 328s and am excited to see it happen so soon!
That's fantastic. The market for my car was $125K in 1990 (offer turned down by a prior owner). I'm glad to see it's only down $18K.
Jon, Let me play devil's advocate for a second: Would YOU turn down $108K for your car? Would the words "550" and "Maranello" help your decision-making process any?
The difference in prices of these cars will just continue to widen between the time capsules and the drivers, as the fleet continues to accumulate the miles. the day of the time capsule looks to be arriving. just my opinion. fwiw
a) No. If someone offered $108K tomorrow, I'd make the deal. b) No. My next car will be older than the 328. I would not sell my car in order to buy a 550, 575, 360, F430, etc. In fact, I would not - today - trade even for an average, early 360. (For a later Spider, I guess I could turn a big profit and then go shop once again for a 328. For an early Modena, no -- took too long to find exactly the car I wanted and put it in top condition. Not worth the bother of another search.) The bad-news subplot to all of this hypothetical run-up in prices is that once the 328s have followed the 246s into six-figure territory there will be no real Enzo Ferrari-era, body-on-frame, hand-assembled, computer-free Ferraris below $100K. We will be left with used 360s, 355s and 348s -- fun cars, but not the same thing. I don't really think 308/328s are headed to six figures anytime soon, but I do think this window of opportunity to find a nice one for less than the price of a new Porsche Boxster will be gone within a few years. I mentioned this to jjay911 when he sold his red 328 for $75K or so. Yes, he came out OK on the sale and may have pocketed a few grand. Nice, but honestly for most owners on this site a few grand isn't a large sum. And, more importantly, if he ever wants in again, he will have to pay up.
Vehicles that approach 30 years old, if it's a "one of a kind", "new" time capsule....not easily found anywhere else... people tend to want stuff like that. Alot of 'em are willin' to pay for it too.
Agreed. If someone offered me anywhere near 100k tomorrow, I'd sign away. Hell, I'd do it for 107,983.99 to undercut desmomini I'd do it with a heavy heart because I think my GTB is a real keeper and if I wanted another one later, it'd be pricey for sure. But now that I'm a new dad (11-month-old twin boys), priorities have definitely shifted. As much as I'd like to add to the 328, it would have to go if I decide to act on my need to satisfy both my V-12 jones and my need to include my family in the fun. That being said, 456M GTs are starting to look really good lately. Lord help me should an equally matched (price-/condition-wise) 550 and 456 both be on the market at the same time when that check for $107,983.99 clears my bank acct! Sure there will. What about Mondials and 308GT4s? No offense to the Mondi and GT4 owners, but strictly by the numbers the market has not been kind to these models. I personally think these 2+2s -- GT4s especially -- are the best kept secrets in the Ferrari world. But like the 246, I'm sure these cars will have their day too.
No offence taken, I can't say for the Mondial's, but the GT4's are really on the move up and a good one is getting very hard to find. I don't think they will be too far behind! Cheers!
True, I was referring to the two seaters, which tend to be the 'dream cars'. If you look at the price ratio between the Daytona and sibling 365 GTC4, I think that's a fair estimate of where the 308/328 GTB-GTS will end up relative to the 308 GT4-Mondial series (not the absolute numbers, but the ratio).
Problem is the maintenance and insurance on a 550 is insane. So even if both cars were worth the same amount in reality the total cost of ownership for a 550 puts it in a different league.
If you go by the Michael Sheehan article, then maybe that's true. You do have to pay to play, but in Fcar terms, 550 maint costs are not 348/355/TR-high and aren't that far off from what 328 maint. #s are, relatively speaking. See real-world numbers from owners here: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4345&highlight=550+maintenance Rifledriver's comments re: 550 vs. 328 maint./reliability. This guy has years of real-world first-hand experience with Fcars and knows his stuff: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=126228&page=2 <---see post 25 But back on topic: 328s cross the $100k barrier! Woohoo! How long til the coattail effect kicks in? Buon Natale! AP
in europe you could still find good 328 for 35-40k euro with 45 you could get some of the best preserved examples it could be these cars will go up more, but this car is possibly the unique 328 no miles, all tools, boks, ecc... in Europe and these kind of cars command a BIG premium as an example a "regluar" countach LP400 market value is in the 250-300k euro now, but if a 99 Km, pristine, all books and tolls would come up for sale i know some buyers that would spend even 450-500k euro for that peculiar car
Well, these cars command higher prices here in South Africa than where most of you are, and I know of a 4,000km 328 GTS here, truly timewarp car, that won't be for sale at the Gstaad figure. The car has never even been registered!
i think that there 2 markets. less expensive in north.America and with the advantage of catalyzator !!! here in Italy there are 2 328 gts with only 4000 miles offered at 55 K euro. but in 3 months nobody has bought. a good car is not possible to pay less than 40K euro. and I spoke with officlal ferrari technical service and they say that if the car has never filled of standard oil in the engine but only special oil for cars not used...we can buy. but they says not to buy a car that covered only 4000 miles in 20 years and with the standard oli filled in the engine. since 2 months I look for a very good 328. but found only cars with a lot of miles. ciao Alex 328
What will happen to 3x8 parts prices when these cars have made it to the six figures? How many of you could afford to drive your cars frequently and insure them properly? I am happy that Mondials are not heading in that direction. I would like to buy another Mondial, drive it a lot and maybe buy a second one. I could not do that if Mondials were six figure cars. The last thing I want is for the Mondial to become an investment object by people who don't actually care about the car and won't drive them but just like to artificially inflate their values. I prefer that the Mondial remains the biggest hidden secret. The more valuable the 3x8 becomes, the more out of reach it also becomes for the true tifosi only to land into the hands of investors. What good is that? It sounds like some of you just want to use your cars as an ATM to buy something else. I don't want a 550, etc. For me, the Mondial is it. By the way, I noticed in Switzerland that there is a much more direct relationship between sale prices and mileage than in the US. Low mileage cars almost always have a higher asking price. (I don't really know why because I have found 3x8 and Mondial odometers to be unreliable).
That's an interesting and provocative question, Anthony. And that's a sensible response, Jon. Faced with that choice, I just recently purchased this 1999 550 with just the right amount of computer intervention. Oh, of course I'm keeping the GTB. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Let's say someone offered US$100K for your 328, would you sell it??? I wouldn't for me it's the memory of the dot.com craziness...Beside with falling dollar, I'd rather keep the car than the paper.
A V-8 AND a V-12. It's good to have options. Congratulations, Barry! I'm curious to read/find out more about how your 550 ownership experience goes. Do keep us posted. Though it appears that you might have your metaphors sligthly crossed up, I think I see where you're coming from.
